What the...?!?!

Discussion of custom parts made for the Castle Theme
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JPinoy
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Post by JPinoy »

Some of you really need to learn Eastern/Asian history more, otherwise you'll keep thinking non-Euro arms and armor as "fantasy".

BTW, some of the LOTR weapons like those Elvish swords aren't that much different in shape from an Ancient Philippine "Panabas". Sith-like tools originally used for farming, which later made its way into the battle field. They varied from 2 ft to 4ft long.

If anything the prop designers in the LOTR films probably just "borrowed" the design and added Celtic decor to make it look elvish.

The top panabas is the elvish-like one. The middle one (3rd from top) I like to call the "hockey stick of death". :lol:
http://www.eriksedge.com/k09ad.jpg

Another panabas.
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=104
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Rubberchickenknight
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Post by Rubberchickenknight »

the armour's all lumpy on the knight! :D
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Post by Blasterman »

Some of you really need to learn Eastern/Asian history more, otherwise you'll keep thinking non-Euro arms and armor as "fantasy".
JPinoy -

You really need to understand that some things in Lego
form are not easily recognizable. Especially when they're
not the "mainstream" items.

Either way, when I say "fantasty", I'm refering mainly to
the visored helm that Arealight created. The other 2
helms, however accurate they might be, look like they
would fit nicely in a Conan movie - imo. Getting the scale
and porportions accurate are crucial, at least to me.

This is the problem with creating something accurate
for Lego. It's not easy, as I'm sure you know.
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JPinoy
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Post by JPinoy »

Another thing people should understand is that Hollywood at times actually takes the time to use historical resources and make historically accurate weapons even if they are meant for fantasy flicks.
This is the problem with creating something accurate
for Lego. It's not easy, as I'm sure you know.
No kidding. I don't use molded customs so I just use the material I get with Lego and at times "modify" Lego parts or just find the closest thing to the real piece. It is hard.
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Post by Blasterman »

Another thing people should understand is that Hollywood at times actually takes the time to use historical resources and make historically accurate weapons even if they are meant for fantasy flicks.
At times, maybe. The only European medieval movie that
I've seen, using historically accurate armour and weapons
(for the most part), was "The Messenger"(Joan of Arc).

If there are others, lmk.
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JPinoy
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Post by JPinoy »

Blasterman wrote: At times, maybe. The only European medieval movie that
I've seen, using historically accurate armour and weapons
(for the most part), was "The Messenger"(Joan of Arc).

If there are others, lmk.
The Mummy Returns...
A fantasy film, but in terms of Egyptian weaponry the axes, tall head gear of the mummy guards and other weapons used were very accurate.

Crouching Tiger : Hidden Dragon (not Hollywood, but HK)
Another fantasy film, though all the weapons are historically accurate. Straight blade weapons with inscriptions have been around since the time before Yeshua (Christ), and were primarily used by officers or other high ranking Chinese soldiers/officers/aristocrats/etc..

Xena: The Warrior Princess (not a movie but a TV show)
Xena's signature weapon, ring shaped disk being thrown like the frisbee of death... called the "Shakrum" is actually a weapon used in ancient India, and it goes by the same name.

Gladiator
The attire of the Legionaires from their armor to their weapons are acurate as this was the way the Legions looked after Marius's reforms on the Roman military. Thats Emperor Marius btw, as played by the late Richard Harris.

The Last Samurai
Considering the Japanese were involved in the making of this film... duh, everything at least on the Japanese end is accurate. Ninja swords were straight not curved like the Katana that the Samurai used, unlike what Lego is making.
Showing the swordsmith dressed like a priest/monk while forging and shaping the sword, I thought was a nice touch as you basically had to be a monk to even create such a sacred weapon as the katana represented the very soul of the samurai warrior. The bows were accurate as the Japanese longbow was 6 to 7 feet tall. Their horse archery practices shown the film was again accurate, as the Samurai Archer will ride at full gallop and strike at the practice target from a 20 ft distance.
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Post by Formendacil »

JPinoy wrote: BTW, some of the LOTR weapons like those Elvish swords aren't that much different in shape from an Ancient Philippine "Panabas". Sith-like tools originally used for farming, which later made its way into the battle field. They varied from 2 ft to 4ft long.

If anything the prop designers in the LOTR films probably just "borrowed" the design and added Celtic decor to make it look elvish.

The top panabas is the elvish-like one. The middle one (3rd from top) I like to call the "hockey stick of death".
As I have stated before (to the consistent irritation of those listening to me in person), the 'elvish' swords from the LR movies are NOT legitimate Tolkien: Tolkien's elves are very much north-western European. They look like handsome Europeans, they speak European-styled languages, they fight with European-style weapons. In the Book of Lost Tales, Egalmoth is specifically singled out as the ONLY elf in Gondolin to fight with a sword that wasn't straight. While it is possible that Tolkien later decided the Egalmoth bore a normal sword like Glorfindel, Ecthelion and the others, the conception that elven swords are straight remains, as evidenced by the predisposition of orcs towards curved or bent blades, and by the representation of Glamdring, Orcrist, and Sting as straight swords. As the only swords of elvish make in the LR or the Hobbit to be shown, they are the best examples of elven sword-styles, not some Peter Jackson movie prop. (My apologies to all the Peter Jackson freaks out there: I loved the movies, they are my favourites, but details like Arwen's sword and Earnur's crown really irritate me. :) )
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Post by Bricksidge »

JPinoy wrote:Some of you really need to learn Eastern/Asian history more, otherwise you'll keep thinking non-Euro arms and armor as "fantasy".
No. You need to learn that not everyone cares about Eastern/Asian history, Eastern/Asian weapons, or Eastern/Asian armies.

For that matter, not everyone cares about Chalcidians, Phagians, "Yeshua", or the Koguryo either.
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Post by Blasterman »

No. You need to learn that not everyone cares about Eastern/Asian history, Eastern/Asian weapons, or Eastern/Asian armies.

For that matter, not everyone cares about Chalcidians, Phagians, "Yeshua", or the Koguryo either.
:lol: And here I was trying to be polite.
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Post by doctorsparkles »

Bricksidge wrote:
JPinoy wrote:Some of you really need to learn Eastern/Asian history more, otherwise you'll keep thinking non-Euro arms and armor as "fantasy".
No. You need to learn that not everyone cares about Eastern/Asian history, Eastern/Asian weapons, or Eastern/Asian armies.

For that matter, not everyone cares about Chalcidians, Phagians, "Yeshua", or the Koguryo either.

I'm going to have to completely agree here. While some of these items might fit into Eastern/Asian creations, for those of us interested strictly in European styles, their inclusion in our creations would be fantasy.
For example, I could give a katana to one of my European minifigs. Sure, katanas existed, but they did not exist in the hands of European soldiers. So this would be more of a fantasy situation.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is this: historically accurate or not, these items do not belong in everyones' creations.
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Post by Formendacil »

doctorsparkles wrote:
I'm going to have to completely agree here. While some of these items might fit into Eastern/Asian creations, for those of us interested strictly in European styles, their inclusion in our creations would be fantasy.
For example, I could give a katana to one of my European minifigs. Sure, katanas existed, but they did not exist in the hands of European soldiers. So this would be more of a fantasy situation.
Fantasy yes, as eastern weapons would have been rarer than emperors in medieval europe. However, it is also entirely possible for a 'fantasy' race, such as elves or dwarves, to use weapons similar or the same to the humans around them, especially if they occupy the same region: that would be the same as Native Canadians using the same guns as the fur traders.
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Post by Blasterman »

The Mummy Returns

Crouching Tiger : Hidden Dragon (not Hollywood, but HK)

Xena: The Warrior Princess (not a movie but a TV show)

Gladiator

The Last Samurai
I asked for other accurately depicted European medieval
movies. Not one from your list is even "medieval".

Thanks anyway.
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Post by TwoTonic Knight »

Blasterman wrote:
The Mummy Returns

Crouching Tiger : Hidden Dragon (not Hollywood, but HK)

Xena: The Warrior Princess (not a movie but a TV show)

Gladiator

The Last Samurai
I asked for other accurately depicted European medieval
movies. Not one from your list is even "medieval".

Thanks anyway.
I'd like to single out Xena as the most hopeless mish-mosh of fantasy and anacronisms that ever existed (I liked it when the episodes were funny, though).

The Vikings (Kirk Douglas) made a pretty good effort at being accurate - even got the stubby horses right. Armor, helmets, weapon designs, were all reasonably accurate. The castle was probably too late for the period, though.

Timeline got most of the bits and pieces reasonably correct, they just strayed either side of their timeline of 1357 by about 60 years or so. And the usual Hollywood love affair of fire effects at night. At least the crossbowmen had pavisers protecting them. :D

Robin and Marion kept to it's period fairly well (I seem to remember a reconstruction of the highly speculative "banded mail" being in there - typical of Richard Lester touches).

It's been a long time since I have seen Eisenstein's Alexander Nevsky, but I seem to recall he got the look of the period and it's famous "Ice Slaughter" battle (those poor rampaging TwoTonic Knights :wink: ). Not that I would count him as "hollywood", I suppose.
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Post by Sir Smittens »

I'm surprised you guys have made it this far w/o the thread getting locked...this is like what happened in Anthony's Custom Weapons topic...

But...I think the items look pretty cool...if a little different than what I might normally use on my soldiers. If they were for sale, I'd probably buy some of that armor...it looks REALLY nice.

--Caleb
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Post by wlister »

Braveheart was reasonably accurate in terms of arms even if the film itself was not "historically" accurate. For a big-budget Hollywood film, it did not stray "too far" in terms of dress and arms. William's sword was a pretty good example of a claymore, but those were from a slightly later period(200 years) and typically were more ceremonial than actually used in battle. Many of the other weapons were "pretty" accurate for the time of William Wallace of course many were not. But for Hollywood, not bad. :wink:

And JPinoy you need to remember that this is Classic-Castle and not Ancient-Civilizations.com. None of the themes you mentioned have ever been produced by TLC as part of the "castle" theme. Basically if it hasn't been made by TLC then it is "Fantasy" as far as many on this site are concerned. It is not your job to teach us or correct us. I like seeing some of the stuff you create, but they belong in General Lego, not Castle MOCs or Castle Customs or Lego Castle.

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After a long absence, I have returned. I can't wait to start building again.
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