Low quality figs in non-regular sets.

Discussion of official LEGO Castle Theme sets and products
User avatar
Robin Hood
Knight Templar
Knight Templar
Posts: 2070
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 2:35 am
Location: An empty room.....somewhere.
Contact:

Post by Robin Hood »

Just to continue on Dave's line of thought there.

One of the things we have to keep in mind when thinking about Lego is that they are a business. At the end of the day, they exist for the sole purpose of making money. It's just a sad fact they do not exist solely for our enjoyment and well being. While they no doubt do their best to cater to us fan's need and desires, the reason they get up in the morning and make bricks is so that at the end of the day they have a bit more money. The Lego Company is just that, a company. Granted, they are about the nicest company you could ever wish to purchase from, and they have made some truly great stuff for us. But still, we do need to keep in mind when complaining about their choices that they are doing what is best for them.

Just saying.

Dan :wink:
I build, therefore I am.

Brave words coming from a guy called grapenuts.
User avatar
Jojo
Master
Posts: 1685
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:26 am
Location: Westfalen
Contact:

Re:

Post by Jojo »

Hello!
Robin Hood wrote:But still, we do need to keep in mind when complaining about their choices that they are doing what is best for them.
Everything you said is true. But then again it’s not our task nor our hobby to applaud them for making money. It’s fine if they do, my hobby, though, is not to watch Lego making well thought of business decisions, but my hobby is building with the bricks, playing with the figs. We as their customers are those who spend our money on their product, so we are totally entitled to judge them by that product. If we don’t like the product we say so. One might object: ”If you don’t like it just don’t buy it!“ But problems with the quality you only discover when you have spent the money already.


Bye
Jojo
 This is just the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put.
Winston Churchill
SuperJuice
Gong Farmer
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:33 pm

Re: Low quality figs in non-regular sets.

Post by SuperJuice »

Hi all, new to the forum but wanted to add some info I had.

I have been collecting LEGO fairly religiously for about 15 years now (not counting the 10 years prior I spent 'playing' with it ;) ), but I am one of those types that leaves it in the box.. sealed.. so I haven't had the best view into how the quality has evolved (devolved) over time... the collection I have amassed will be a good historical record though (if ever opened). Some recent experiences and then the discovery of other people discussing the issue with the 'red' coloring have led me to here.

My first signs of degradation in quality of product was when the boxes all turned single ply cardboard and international versions started appearing with multiple languages. The boxes also lost the plastic moldings and clear windows used to 'display' pieces of the sets when you opened the flap of the box. This would have been done in the late 90's early 00's is my guess. They then started bagging the LEGO differently and splitting the kits/instructions.

My first solid concerns with the LEGO itself was with the Ferrari Technic model which is essentially all red. I bought this for my brother, and him being normal opened and assembled it. I was shocked to discover the quality of the red used. The body panels comprised of about 4-5 different variants of red, this was _definitely_ not the LEGO I grew up with, and definitely not the LEGO I thought I was collecting. I shrugged this off as perhaps a quick franchise set made on the cheap so didn't think much more of it.

Fast forward to about a week ago, I was in the LEGO shop of Legoland Denmark and I found the vintage mini figure collections, and immediately I could tell there was something severely wrong with the red.

Interestingly my Vintage Minifigure Collection Volume 1 doesn't seem to suffer from the red problem, the classic space man seems fine. (-edit-, just read someone saying it isn't.. will have to check my set again!).

Volume 2 - The pirates hat appears to be the correct red, but has a molding mark but both the Ninja and the postman's shirt are definitely the lower quality red

Volume 3 - Only 1 small piece on the soldier that is difficult to tell

Volume 4 - Knight has the low quality red, santa has low quality red body, but correct colored hat and the feather in Robin Hood's cap appears to be the low quality red

I also noticed that on a lot of the loose bricks in the 'pick and mix' they showed molding marks. This is definitely not something I would expect from LEGO, and to me shows that the quality is really slipping, even in the LEGO homeland!

I also looked closely at the battle packs, tic tac toe and chess sets (planning to send them home) and all had the horrible translucent red all through them so I won't be touching them. Comparing the 'new' generation battlepack Pirate LEGO to the original would scare a few people I think.

When in the LEGO shop in Hamburg they had facility to create mini figures. Most of the components were made of what felt like lower quality plastic and also had the translucent red legs and torsos (red used in hard hats seemed fine). They also felt rough in texture on body components that felt very different to what I was used to. I decided that this was likely due to the nature of what was being sold (tubs of pieces, sold en-mass).

I also dropped in to Legoland Berlin. I picked up some more LEGO here, namely the santa clause keyring. I didn't pick this up because I like santa clause, more because I was amazed it was using the good quality red from top to bottom in stark contrast to the santa in the Vintage Minifigure Collection. You can put the 2 minifigures together and they are like night and day! (obvious when comparing the legs).

That is all I really wanted to add. I sadly have the proof of inconsistency I thought I would never see from someone like LEGO. Not only has it left a bitter taste in my mouth, but I am gravely concerned by how much more the quality will slip.

As for the comments about LEGO needing to do this to stay afloat.. I seriously don't think so. I have been collecting all through the time when LEGO was going through an extremely rough patch (posted loss for the first time) and they made some seriously bad decisions which they can only blame themselves for. Think of all the Lego PC games when they branched way too far from their core business, the 'Galidor' series of sets (I have half of these and they are absolutely atrocious). I personally think it was because they completely lost focus of why people bought their product in the first place.

Since then it appears they have franchised heavily to stay afloat, that is what saved them and is pushing them and their profits forward. Franchise deals such as:
NBA, NHL, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, SpongeBob, Discovery Channel, Bob The Builder, Spiderman, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Dora the Explorer, Thomas the Tank Engine, Batman, Harry Potter

I think it's only in the last few years with the cash raised from franchise deals that LEGO have really refocused on their core business which is making some seriously good non-franchised LEGO in their own 'universe'. Space Police, the new range of City, Castle, Pirates, Vikings _Massive_ Technic sets like the Bulldozer (Bring back Model Team!).. they should have sustained this all along.

For me, LEGO cutting the quality and losing consistency is spitting in the face of purists to make a few extra dollars. They know the 5-12 year old age group won't care what the consistency of their injection molding or red dye is.

True I don't have to buy it but I don't think that really lets LEGO off the hook for cutting corners when reliability and quality has been their hallmark for so many decades. If I can't be 100% sure that what I am buying is top quality, why risk my money?
Last edited by SuperJuice on Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sir Kohran
Sheriff
Posts: 1568
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:24 am

Re: Low quality figs in non-regular sets.

Post by Sir Kohran »

One of the things we have to keep in mind when thinking about Lego is that they are a business. At the end of the day, they exist for the sole purpose of making money. It's just a sad fact they do not exist solely for our enjoyment and well being. While they no doubt do their best to cater to us fan's need and desires, the reason they get up in the morning and make bricks is so that at the end of the day they have a bit more money. The Lego Company is just that, a company. Granted, they are about the nicest company you could ever wish to purchase from, and they have made some truly great stuff for us. But still, we do need to keep in mind when complaining about their choices that they are doing what is best for them.
The sad thing is that this wasn't always the case (or at least it didn't seem to be). Seeing how talkative and considerate the likes of Mike Rayhawk, Swiftone and Greg Farshtey were really made me believe that Lego genuinely cared about the customers, and the online communities dedicated to the hobby. Of course Lego has always cared about its profits - but there was always a certain sense that they loved making us/the customers happy at the same time, rather than just being a cold-hearted business out solely for a fat heap of dollars. That sense has, at least for now, gone.
the 'Galidor' series of sets (I have half of these and they are absolutely atrocious)
You bought Galidor?! Take him to the gallows!! :mad: :wink:
True I don't have to buy it
As Jojo touched on, the 'if you don't like it, don't buy it' argument is ridiculous, because it assumes we already know about the lack of quality before we buy it. Had it not been for this topic, we wouldn't know anything about this until we'd already spent our money (sadly, this still applies to the majority of customers). There's nothing in the glossy catalogues or set containers to indicate that the quality of parts is lower, which is deceitful and (at least to me) completely unacceptable.
If I can't be 100% sure that what I am buying is top quality, why risk my money?
Don't risk it at all.

I'd recently been planning on some major Lego purchases, but in light of this I won't be buying from Lego again until this issue is resolved.
SuperJuice
Gong Farmer
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:33 pm

Re: Low quality figs in non-regular sets.

Post by SuperJuice »

Sir Kohran wrote:
the 'Galidor' series of sets (I have half of these and they are absolutely atrocious)
You bought Galidor?! Take him to the gallows!! :mad: :wink:
Funnily enough, I bought Galidor to show people in future that LEGO have, and definitely do make mistakes.. and when they do they are shocking. Was also to hit home the point that they can't blame all their financial difficulties over time on a changing market.

I love showing people the Galidor sets even now.. they just can't believe they have the LEGO logo on them.

Back on topic slightly, has anyone found any major quality problems with bricks in any larger sets recently? I was planning on buying up on the larger / rarer box sets like the VW Beetle / Eiffel Tower and some of the bigger Technic to send it back but i'm hesitating a bit now. The worst of what I have seen first hand has all been mini-figures and the molding marks on the pick and mix. I also have serious concerns about the advent calendars and the new board games they have released. Has anyone opened these to take a look?

One last thing, has anyone created or seen a site / thread / flickr group with photos of LEGO quality anomalies? If not I may put something like this together where you can list the set number/component and fault so people can get a good idea of where and when the quality is slipping, I think this would be a great way to keep LEGO directly accountable.
User avatar
mystuffiscool
Apprentice
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:47 pm
Location: Here

Re: Low quality figs in non-regular sets.

Post by mystuffiscool »

Hm. This might stop me from getting any of the Troll and Dwarf Battle Packs that I might have gotten before. I like my figs to be of pristine quality...
Mystuffiscool
----------
My Flickr: [url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/legoworshipper/[/url]

"Just between you and me, I think 'everything' bagels are making a lot of promises they can't keep."

Okay, so now I'm an Apprentice! To what exactly...?
User avatar
Papy.G
Laborer
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:17 pm
Location: France

Re: Low quality figs in non-regular sets.

Post by Papy.G »

I looked to my GF's advent calendar's MFs, they seem fine, no marking inside the arm, just the jester's hat red is a little dark (I suppose it is because of the two color molding), and his pants are a little translucent, but isn't this normal these days? Does some today red parts often occur to be really opaque?

I'm in the same fear than MyStuffIsCool, I have to buy some sets among pirates(Calendar, imperial fortress and/or the Pirates' Boat), the KCS and/or MMV, they are supposed not to suffer from QC since they are not in the range of "MF packs", can I buy them this year, or should I wait? And If I wait, won't I risk to get an old set that has just waited in stock, or not be able to get one since they are sold out?
"I got to brick free!" Freddie Mercury
[url=http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?m=PapyG]My Brickshelf[/url]
User avatar
quaraga
Total n00b
Total n00b
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:10 am
Location: roflysst (rolling on the floor laughing, yet still somehow typing)

Re: Low quality figs in non-regular sets.

Post by quaraga »

None of my goblins have any torso or arm problems but some of my "iron" helms are more lightly coloured like silver or steel.

why has lego done this and not expected cc to notice?
-T.R.
He who thinks you should look at the box that says "Quaraga" if you want to find out his username (about as useful to you as his real name). he only wants you to look so he can laugh about you looking there because he's a total smart...
User avatar
SunStorm
Villein
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: United States

Re: Low quality figs in non-regular sets.

Post by SunStorm »

Hm... I got a 2008 knight battle pack set and noticed no difference, maybe it wasn't until 2009. As for chess sets, it is the same. I don't have the new one, but I got one in 2005.
MOCPage: [url]http://www.mocpages.com/home.php/23889[/url]
User avatar
quaraga
Total n00b
Total n00b
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:10 am
Location: roflysst (rolling on the floor laughing, yet still somehow typing)

Re: Low quality figs in non-regular sets.

Post by quaraga »

davee123 wrote:Just to be very clear here-- it wasn't really in their search to "make more money". It as their search to "not go bankrupt". Effectively, LEGO had a choice: They could maintain their level of quality and effectively go out of business. Basically close shop entirely or reduce their size TREMENDOUSLY and only market to, say, Germany, where people will pay for high-quality toys, unlike the USA. OR, they could sacrifice some quality and remain in business.DaveE
somehow i don't think that that is true, isn't LEGO one of the most popular toys ever or something similar?
He who thinks you should look at the box that says "Quaraga" if you want to find out his username (about as useful to you as his real name). he only wants you to look so he can laugh about you looking there because he's a total smart...
Handar
Archer
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:41 pm

Re: Low quality figs in non-regular sets.

Post by Handar »

quaraga wrote:
davee123 wrote:Just to be very clear here-- it wasn't really in their search to "make more money". It as their search to "not go bankrupt". Effectively, LEGO had a choice: They could maintain their level of quality and effectively go out of business. Basically close shop entirely or reduce their size TREMENDOUSLY and only market to, say, Germany, where people will pay for high-quality toys, unlike the USA. OR, they could sacrifice some quality and remain in business.DaveE
somehow i don't think that that is true, isn't LEGO one of the most popular toys ever or something similar?
Lego's economic woes and subsequent recoveries are documented widely. Due to a wide number of questionable (or downright poor) decisions, by 2004 it looked like the company was dead in the water. There have been all kinds of articles written about this, but here's at least one to give you a quick overview. Others might have better articles to which they can point.

~~~~~EDIT~~~~~

Here is a much more detailed article, and here is a link to the thread discussing it.
User avatar
Knight Man
Journeyman
Posts: 441
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:00 am
Location: Upper Midwest
Contact:

Re: Low quality figs in non-regular sets.

Post by Knight Man »

[img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8475/8406300705_86b2d80f86_m.jpg[/img] [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/76575933@N02/]My Flickr[/url] [url=https://brickset.com/sets/ownedby-The_Creator]My sets[/url]
Post Reply