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Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Discussion of official LEGO Castle Theme sets and products

Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby Blueandwhite » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:51 am

By moving away from the Castle name, it actually feels like LEGO is reneging on the position that Castle is one of it's core themes. I can envision a scenario where LEGO moves to a broader brand to label the Castle theme and under the guise of this umbrella subsequently drops the Castle theme yet again. Under a sufficiently generic name we could have everything from Romans to Steampunk while Castle itself is ignored until yet again it disappears all together.

I have the greatest respect for fans of Vikings and Ninja, but neither are truly castle (IMO). In fact, with the birth of NInja we ended up seeing the first true gap in the Castle line. These themes are wonderful additions to the LEGO universe, however the resulting absense of castle was extremely disappointing to builders like myself. Look at the large quantity of Castle-based MOCs and displays out there. The same can't be said for either Ninja or Vikings; both of which have had such short shelf lives that they were unable establish a huge fanbase.

Castle along with Town/City and Space represent some of the largest AFOL fanbases out there. Amongst those three, Town/City has always been given a greater level of respect (likely owing to its more significant fanbase). It's taken a long time for Castle and Space fans to earn the same level of respect from LEGO. With a simple name change we could yet again lose the ear of the LEGO company. This is marketing at its worst. If LEGO wants to give sub-titles to different years I'm all for it so long as the Castle name stays. For me, anything less would be an indication that LEGO sees Castle the way they seem to view Pirates; as a disposable product line.
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Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby DaleDVM » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:03 pm

Playing the Devil's advocate here: I just wonder if lego is looking to incorporate more non-castle sets into the theme. After all most sets that are released in the castle theme are from the era but are not castles at all. From what I hear MMV has done much better than expected. I've also heard plans for another civilian release. Something like Kingdoms more naturally encompasses the civilian side of the theme along with the castles and fortresses. Kingdoms also can cover asian, middle eastern, nordic, and fantastical subthemes.

I am not saying I prefer the change. I would like the castle name to stick. I am just looking at this from lego's point of view.

I would like the castle theme to continue. If renaming it is necessary to keep the line going strong for the future I am willing to make the sacrifice.
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Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby davee123 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:40 pm

Honestly, I'm not sure what they're trying to imply to fans with this name change. They already changed it to "Knight's Kingdom" for 7 years from 2000-2006. During that timeframe, the product wasn't called "castle" at all that I'm aware of-- at least not in anything "official" to the product. And since Ninja wasn't referred to as "castle" either, you could say that "castle" as a name was absent for 9 years from 1998-2006. As far as I'm aware, things like "Knight's Kingdom" are worked on by a "castle" development group internally, but I don't think that particular name has any relevance outside the company, apart from things like fan reference.

Suffice to say that to me, this is simply a repeat of what's already been done, so I have no qualms about them changing the name again. In fact, I actually would prefer that they change the name so that it's clear from fan terminology what we're talking about. Frequently I'll be trying to refer to the current "Castle" lineup as a distinct entity-- which is called ... "Castle". But you can't call it that to fans, because "Castle" already has a meaning as a theme that spans from 1978-2009. So instead, I have to call it "Castle - Fantasy Era", or "Castle 2007", or "Castle - Trolls & Skeletons", or something similar. If they had decided to call the current lineup "Kingdoms", it would have been much easier for me as a fan to reference the lineup.

I think what's significant here is that LEGO is talking about some sort of change, which most likely (I think) means that the "Fantasy Era" sets are on their way out and something new is taking its place. If LEGO was planning on continuing the scheme with Crown Knights, Trolls, Undead, and Dwarves, they'd probably want to keep the name "Castle" on the boxes (effectively the logo) to provide continuity across the sets. Hence, my guess is that we'll probably see two new factions in 2010 or 2011 (whenever these sets start surfacing), and it's time to bid farewell to the current factions.

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Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby Username » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:11 pm

I would be ok with something like these examples:

For the Crown Knights vs Skeletons

Lego Castle: Skeleton Invasion

For the Trolls:

Lego Castle: Troll Hordes
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Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby Count Blacktron » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:21 pm

What about a theme that approaches things under a larger umbrella title, such as:

Castle Life (farms, peasants, bards & jesters, royal pursuits and the royal keep)

Castle Battles (invaders, zombies, trolls, evil/neutral/good armies assailing the hill-forts)

Castle Quests (yon errant knights and squires embark to do great deeds worthy of song)

Castle Magic (witchcraft, wizardry and appropriate dark or light pursuits)

Castle City (market, trade smiths, law enforcement, goods sellers, major buildings and walls)

You get the picture? It's still Castle, but depending upon what the focus of the set is (i.e. what's in the box) you could sub-head the title for the theme to maintain a focal identity.

I'd be much more excited about THAT than even the great products of 2007-2009 have given us, especially if they approach this theme as a continuity of time and location as they have with City sets.
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Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby BiggerJim » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:53 pm

Count, I like the sound of those. It keeps "Castle" alive while providing oportunities for TLG created sub-themes and sub-sets.
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Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby CVfan13 » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:20 pm

(oh boy, been awhile since my last post)

While I can't say I'm happy that the name is going to be changed, I'd like to ask, is anyone at least relieved to know that this means they're confirming the continuity of the line? I mean, for me, startling news would have been the cancellation of "Castle" all together.

I think the leaked name I won't mention due to policies (if I'm even allowed to say this?) would suggest a broader range, as others have said. Personally, I would love to see TLC incorporate elements from other societies (real and fictional) such as the Romans, Ninja/Samurai, or even something Middle-Eastern/Arabian. I'd also like to see something with Ancient India. Just as long as what we know as "castle" is still present, I'm game for just about anything.

I won't start crying until we've seen what this actually means. For now, I'll stay positive welcome the future.
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Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby Heir of Black Falcon » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:02 pm

I have to say while I'd love some neat sets dealing with other cultures and perhaps related times I'd not be happy if they replaced the 'castle' as in european castle theme. As others have said here. I do not mind them as side or sub themes but not the central one.

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Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby Fenneke-Jose » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:15 am

Lord Of The Rings would be a good name (a couple of years a go) :roflol:

It's a pitty that they didn't get a license for that or would not get a license. But anyway, the last Castle serie seems to be inspired by it (Trolls, Dwarfs).

But for now, let Castle stay Casle, please :orc:
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Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby DaleDVM » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:40 pm

It is a little off topic but:

A lord of the rings license would have been horrible. It would have introduced fleshies into a core theme like castle. I would not have liked that at all. It is not like they would have made a good LOTR castle that looked anything like the ones Tolkein described to us. They couldn't make a good model of any of them for anywhere near $100.00.

With the fantasy era we got most of the figures and races we want from the LOTR without fleshies and crappy imitations of the LOTR castles.

I do like count blacktron's idea of subthemes keeping the castle name. Kudos to you Count!

Whatever they do with the name, I just hope that they continue to make quality sets like I have seen these last couple of years. I personally feel the quality is better than even the classic castle years (late 80's to early 90's).
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Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby ragnarok » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:53 pm

Hi,

I have not written anything for some time now but I find this issue really important. In my humble oppinion TLG has actually changed the name once to .... "Knights Kingdom". And I believe it was not only me that did not feel good about the whole idea of it. So, please keep the name "Castle" and what it stands for - tradition, quality and many many devoted fans all over the globe. Lego Castle world is a universe of its own, allowing each collector to create his or hers own story so do not deprive us of our dreams by putting it all in some franchise.
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Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby Sir Kohran » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:32 pm

I believe the brand name 'Castle' was originally used for the line of sets released from 1984 to 1998. Then came the short-lived Ninja line which ended in 1999, and then the even briefer Knights' Kingdom 1 in 2000. The Lego equivalent of the Dark Ages then began, until Knights' Kingdom 2 in 2004 and Vikings in 2005, both of which lasted until 2006. Then in 2007, the term 'Castle' was used for the fantasy theme we have now.

So the term 'Castle' was never officially the name for all of Lego's medieval/fantasy products. But because it was used for the longest running and (probably) most memorable section of the line, it's been adopted as such.

Overall I think changing the name now would be a bad idea, just for the sake of consistency, though I don't think it's a very big deal in the first place. As others have pointed out, it's the contents not the name that counts.
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Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby architect » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:22 am

Sir Kohran wrote:I believe the brand name 'Castle' was originally used for the line of sets released from 1984 to 1998.

SNIP

So the term 'Castle' was never officially the name for all of Lego's medieval/fantasy products. But because it was used for the longest running and (probably) most memorable section of the line, it's been adopted as such.

Overall I think changing the name now would be a bad idea, just for the sake of consistency, though I don't think it's a very big deal in the first place. As others have pointed out, it's the contents not the name that counts.


Actually, the term Castle was used for some of the Classic sets. Check out the North American version of the Yellow Castle box which includes the text LEGOLAND Castle System: http://media.peeron.com/pics/inv/setpic ... 082804.jpg

It was also called LEGOLAND Castle in the 1980 UK Catalogs: http://www.peeron.com/catalogs/1980/medium/15/?id=68

The term Castle was used frequently in leaflets, booklets, magazines, and SAH catalogs. Changing the name to Knight's Kingdom in 2000 was around the time TLG was losing their way which led to the near collapse of the company in 2003. Keeping the name which was used for the majority of the theme's life should remind the company to design quality sets like many found in the 1980s and in the past several years.

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Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby Lord Lego 436 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:53 am

I think that it's a BAD idea. Castle should stay Castle, and any other of the choices will lead to more 'bad' themes like Vikings or Ninjas. For Pete's sake people, NINJAS AREN'T CASTLE! :mad:

I digress, the Vikings were cool, other than the Technic Monsters. I think that Lego is burying itself too deep in licensing and greed. Movies are just going against what LEGO is, A TOY. The 'new names' are leading towards more of a genre that is trying to appeal to the 21st century generation (Of which I am part of), the generation that can watch The Mummy or any other horror film without batting an eye.
Long and short is, that LEGO wants to ramp up the 'action' in its sets with more 'Cool' names, and that's a bad idea, because it goes against all of LEGO's core values, Play Well.
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Re: Classic-[Insert New Name Here].com?

Postby g2 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:01 pm

Lego does need to expand and grow its range of sets, in ALL themes. And I think it has done so quite well with the castle theme, (with the exception of the candy colored knights – you know the ones I mean). I do think that the core theme should remain in the historical realm, ie vikings, samurai, etc, but it should be as diverse as it possibly can. As regards to the name, I don't really care what it is called, as long as it can feed my need to have “pre-modern” figs, buildings and equipment, I am fairly happy.

Ye Olde Republic wrote:... that "Kingdoms" would work in that it could cover more than just the normal castle type sets we usually get.
I am liking the sound of Kingdoms. I am not 100% satisfied, but it does have a nice sound to it.

pijani wrote:it does not matter hiw will they call it, as long as they treat us with fantasy candies like elves, shadows, angels, demons...
I too would love to see some elves, angels and demons as well. Bring on the variety bucket.

Blueandwhite wrote:Castle along with Town/City and Space represent some of the largest AFOL fanbases out there.
I would have to say, that no matter what will happen and no matter what has happened to the various names over the years, I still see Lego as Castle, Town & Space. Just with more variety.
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