Classic-Castle.com


The source for all your LEGO Castle needs!

Battle Dragon 6018 again.

Discussion of official LEGO Castle Theme sets and products

Re: Battle Dragon 6018 again.

Postby TerdVader » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:32 am

Hi everyone. I think this might be my first post.

Anyways, the topic of Castle theme factions is one that has intrigued me since my Lego Castle childhood in the 80's and 90's, and while I've been out of the game for many years, and don't have near the Lego knowledge any of you do, I thought I'd come in and share what I believe, which was my approach to playing Lego Castle as a kid.

In order not to dictate how to play with the Lego system, I felt Lego was always purposely vague when showing the merits of a set in a catalogue or commercial, making it so that I don't really think there is a real right or wrong answer. But this is how I always saw it. I don't think you can deny that the lion Knight/Crusaders are supposed to be the "good guys", and beyond that, with having a set called the "Kings Castle", you know they're in charge. My first set was Black Monarchs Castle, so my first day in the game, there were already 3 factions. Lions/Falcons?Crusaders. To me the Black Falcons and Black Monarch's factions weren't "bad guys" but underlings of the king, trying to win prestige and favor by fighting or one upping each other.

I saw the two "black" factions the way I'd seen underlings in the movies, whether it be like the Cardinal from the Three Musketeers, or the Sheriff of Nottingham from Robin Hood, which were both popular movies during the golden age of Lego Castle. In my head I always saw Black Monarch guys as being the more dastardly of the two, but both would do what's necessary to achieve power. This was a very popular theme/idea during this time period, not just with the two movies I mentioned, but in movies like Star Wars with the relationship between Vader and the Emperor, to other vague ideas of heirarchy in cartoons like GI JOE, where Destro was doing the same thing to Cobra Commander on a weekly basis, or StarScream/Megatron, or Skeletor/ Beastman/Trapjaw/Merman. the same types of heirarchies exsisted in almost all the media my young brain consumed, so naturally, I applied this same logic to my Lego battles. When the Black Monarchs Ghost set came out, I thought the Ghost itself was Black Monarch, so they always fought in memory of their leader, but in reality, I think it says something that no king or Queen was ever produced, that maybe a lack of leadership was intended, and lends creedance to the idea that these are already factions in power fighting to rule and govern. Like stated by another, I saw the forestmen as the Robin Hood type, good guys at heart, and not at all interchangeable with the Wolfpack, who were basically thieves and pirate-like.

When the Dragon guys came out, I remember getting in a fight with my friend because he thought the Dragon guys were the same as the Black Monarchs, who having teamed up with the blue wizard, had changed their theme, to associate themselves with the dragons they now controlled. It's plausable I guess, I think my main complaint with it as a 12 year old, was really just that if the Dragon Knights were the Monarchs, the the sheer balance of sets just made the #1 guys even bigger, which didn't make any sense. If I were to recreate my battles now, as an adult, or with my son, I'd probably make it so that Majesto, the blue wizard, having the ability to control dragons, would be recruiting his Dragon Knights from all the various factions with the promise of turning the tide in the war for who reigns in LegoLand.


Also, just to chime in on the other discussion. I view the 6018 dragon boat set as a Falcons set. While color scheming the figs together within a set often worked, I don't feel at all that Lego ever intended a specific color or shirt pattern to align with a faction, and goes to further my idea that in the big scheme of things, they're all really offshoots of a bigger faction (those under rule of the king). With the boat having a dragon head, I see it as nothing more than a symbol to strike fear in the hearts of those they sail against, and dragon heads aren't that hard to fake with a few bricks. Just look at the Dragon Knights castle from a few years later, swiveling dragon head on it, also, I didn't associate them with the Monarch knights, who also used the dragon emblem.

Just my .02 :)
TerdVader
Gong Farmer
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:03 pm

Re: Battle Dragon 6018 again.

Postby AK_Brickster » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:34 pm

What a great first post! I appreciate your viewpoint and I think that it aligns pretty close to my own.

TerdVader wrote:Like stated by another, I saw the forestmen as the Robin Hood type, good guys at heart, and not at all interchangeable with the Wolfpack, who were basically thieves and pirate-like.

I'm glad I'm not the only one! You are spot-on, my friend. :)
Image Image
Plastics make it possible! (BrickLink) - - - My Flickr Stream
Courage, Honor, Loyalty! For Garheim!
User avatar
AK_Brickster
Visconte des Paysans de Gong
 
Posts: 3219
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:02 pm
Location: Mushing through the Great Driftplains of Garheim

Re: Battle Dragon 6018 again.

Postby krzyzak » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:34 am

JoshWedin wrote:Here is an explanation that was never brought up in the original conversation...this is a Black Knight spy vessel. They are black knights who are prepared to pose as Crusaders or Black Falcons. They convinced some of the catalog makers that they were Crusaders and the set picture captures them in the middle of a costume change. I think that covers it all, don't you think? ;)

Josh


They are disguising as BF's by only a shield?
You've got to ask yourself one question,"Do I feel lucky?" Well do ya, punk?
Image
krzyzak
Foot Soldier
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:07 am

Re: Battle Dragon 6018 again.

Postby JoshWedin » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:15 am

krzyzak wrote:
JoshWedin wrote:Here is an explanation that was never brought up in the original conversation...this is a Black Knight spy vessel. They are black knights who are prepared to pose as Crusaders or Black Falcons. They convinced some of the catalog makers that they were Crusaders and the set picture captures them in the middle of a costume change. I think that covers it all, don't you think? ;)

Josh


They are disguising as BF's by only a shield?


I did say they were in the middle of a costume change, didn't I? ;) Of course, they might be incompetent spies who thought that a shield was enough. :)

Josh
AFOL and his money are easily parted.

Image The Brothers Brick
User avatar
JoshWedin
Chevalier de Chèvre
Chevalier de Chèvre
 
Posts: 5642
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 2:35 pm
Location: Pondering what you are pondering

Re: Battle Dragon 6018 again.

Postby Redav » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:39 am

JoshWedin wrote:I did say they were in the middle of a costume change, didn't I? ;) Of course, they might be incompetent spies who thought that a shield was enough. :)

And in that instance I'd suggest that due to the target audience Lego is aimed at, this is all that is needed. It's a bit like how the Forestmen have shields on most of their hideaways but really, if it was a hideaway then it wouldn't have anything like that.

I reckon it's probably a mistage but being spies or thieves are equally valid arguments and probably add a bit of a story to the playability of the set. Personally, I'd swap the shields.
Redav
Foot Soldier
 
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:42 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Battle Dragon 6018 again.

Postby Frank_Lloyd_Knight » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:04 am

It's just two guys out on the lake with a keg. Why the crossbow? To open the keg.
Frank_Lloyd_Knight
Journeyman
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:53 am
Location: Corpus Christi

Re: Battle Dragon 6018 again.

Postby JoshWedin » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:16 pm

Frank_Lloyd_Knight wrote:It's just two guys out on the lake with a keg. Why the crossbow? To open the keg.


This is my favorite explanation yet.

Josh
AFOL and his money are easily parted.

Image The Brothers Brick
User avatar
JoshWedin
Chevalier de Chèvre
Chevalier de Chèvre
 
Posts: 5642
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 2:35 pm
Location: Pondering what you are pondering

Re: Battle Dragon 6018 again.

Postby theboywarrior » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:23 pm

AK_Brickster wrote:What a great first post! I appreciate your viewpoint and I think that it aligns pretty close to my own.

TerdVader wrote:Like stated by another, I saw the forestmen as the Robin Hood type, good guys at heart, and not at all interchangeable with the Wolfpack, who were basically thieves and pirate-like.

I'm glad I'm not the only one! You are spot-on, my friend. :)



Hear Hear! :D
Some folk we never forget
Some kind we never forgive
Haven’t seen the back of us yet
We’ll fight as long as we live

Image
User avatar
theboywarrior
Steward
 
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:02 am
Location: Trenzalore. Help.

Re: Battle Dragon 6018 again.

Postby dyntar » Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:00 pm

Heres my 2 cents.. at this point in Lego history the Black falcons weren't winning the battle .... they were under manned and their castles were always inferior to the crusaders/lions... so they decided to join forces with the more powerful and upcoming power the Black knight/Dragon faction.
The Dragons loaned them a boat the Battle Dragon [6018] in exchange for some extra soldiers on board the Sea serpent [6057]
The costumes they wore is just because that was the most defensive chain mail that was available at the time. [all 3 factions were wearing it at the time]
User avatar
dyntar
Foot Soldier
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:05 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Battle Dragon 6018 again.

Postby Tower of Iron Will » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:02 pm

JoshWedin wrote:
Frank_Lloyd_Knight wrote:It's just two guys out on the lake with a keg. Why the crossbow? To open the keg.


This is my favorite explanation yet.

Josh



Yes, this would get my vote as well. It could be as simple as two knights cruising the lake looking for someone to party with. Or, they happened to buy their boat from a used boat dealer. Otherwise, one could spend weeks with all the different theories about potential alliances or whatnot.
-Tower
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely!

Despise learning and make everyone pay for your ignorance.

The water that floats a ship is the same that sinks it.

My LEGO figures keep me from being evil, drat!!
User avatar
Tower of Iron Will
Master
 
Posts: 1705
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:47 am
Location: Fortress of the Lion Emperor

Re: Battle Dragon 6018 again.

Postby Webrain » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:50 am

I haven't read the entire thread but I will later on.
I poundered for a very long time about it.
I still think the boat is Black dragon.

As for the shield issue I try to see it as market point of view.
By 1990 most of the BF sets been out of market.
The 2 new rulers been the Black Knights and the Forestman.
However in 1990 the Crusders been back with a new castle.
So it was pretty much the end of BF. However they still want
them to be gone completly. So in both of the new 1990 sets they put
2 of their shields which still could be avialble for kids to get.
6059 had the blue one..... and since they settle to put the yellow one in 6018
since it couldn't fit in any of the rest.

We have a same issue with the Dragon master in sets 6078 and 6079 when
they got their versions of the Black knlghts sheilds instead.
I think they wanted to make them available for a small while longer.
User avatar
Webrain
Journeyman
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:10 pm
Location: Holon, Israel

Previous

Return to LEGO Castle Sets

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests