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Mixing factions

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Re: Mixing factions

Postby Tower of Iron Will » Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:54 am

Yes, I agree that if you are going to have a big MOC with multiple contributors then some basic faction definitions would have to be made/agreed upon. And the Forgotten Realms is a perfect example of this. I wouldn't think it stifling, more on the side of making the whole MOC be cohereant(sp?) and less confusing. But as to individuals MOCs and LEGOverses, the individual lego fan's choice on who's good or bad is up to them.
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Re: Mixing factions

Postby SEdmison » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:26 am

Tower of Iron Will wrote:Yes, I agree that if you are going to have a big MOC with multiple contributors then some basic faction definitions would have to be made/agreed upon. And the Forgotten Realms is a perfect example of this. I wouldn't think it stifling, more on the side of making the whole MOC be cohereant(sp?) and less confusing. But as to individuals MOCs and LEGOverses, the individual lego fan's choice on who's good or bad is up to them.
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Exactly. And my open question to the forum is whether other folks see value in coming up with some sort of Classic-Castle short-hand faction guide specifically for these multi-builder collaborations. It wouldn't have to be really elaborate. All I'm really thinking about is to establish some basic tropes and characteristics:
    The Wolfpack Renegades have no long-term alliances, but can occasionally be persuaded (for the right amount of gold) to take sides, until the odds are stacked too heavily against them.
    The Forestmen harass the local corrupt constable and occasionally hold up rich nobles and caravans in order to "liberate" some coin or mead for themselves and the local peasants.
    Do the Crusader knights support or oppose the Black Falcons?
    Are there any relationships between the various lion-emblazoned factions (Royal Knights, Lion Knights, etc.)? Are they units of the same force, or are they armies of, say, sibling heirs to what was once a single lion knight empire?
    Presumably baddies like Cedric the Bull and Basil the Bat have their own agendas and are not allied for any length of time, but can occasionally work together if they find a common purpose.
I'm not trying just to reduce everything to good guys and bad guys, but just to establish which groups are likely to be found on the same side of a given battle line and which groups are likely to be on opposite sides. (I think that all of this is really in keeping with the personalities and characters that the designers established when they put out the sets; consolidating it and writing it down just makes more accessible for folks just coming into the hobby without having followed all the sets back to the yellow castle.)

Just a thought.
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Re: Mixing factions

Postby CVfan13 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:53 pm

The debate of how the factions are related is really mind-boggling!

SEdmission, I agree with your views on the Wolfpack and Forestmen. I've also debated whether or not the Lion Knights and Black Falcons are allies. When obvious baddies like the Fright Knights and Dragon Knights are thrown into the equation, it's difficult to think of the Black Falcons as "bad". And of course, the good vs. bad thing makes it complicated too...

I currently have my (newly acquired) Black Falcon's Fortress attached to my King's Mountain Fortress, Guarded Inn and Armor Shop, to make a larger castle. I have to say, it looks really cool, despite being guarded by both Falcons and Lion Knights. I guess I see them as allies. Also the way that the presumed Lion Knights of the Guarded Inn are showing hospitality to a presumed Black Falcon, in the official set, reinforces the idea that they are on friendly terms.

Also, I think since Majisto and Willa are the only magic users, they may share similar pasts, so I'd think they would be likely to team up during a war.

Just out of curiosity, who do you view as the leader of the Fright Knights? Willa the Witch or Basil the Batlord? (I personally think it's Willa)
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Re: Mixing factions

Postby SEdmison » Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:51 am

CVfan13 wrote:I've also debated whether or not the Lion Knights and Black Falcons are allies. When obvious baddies like the Fright Knights and Dragon Knights are thrown into the equation, it's difficult to think of the Black Falcons as "bad". And of course, the good vs. bad thing makes it complicated too...

Well, in any set of medieval factions, you'd have rivalries, territorial disagreements, disputes over resources, intentional or unintentional slights to a knight's honor, intrigue at court, and any number of other reasons why two factions that are otherwise generally law-abiding might come to blows. So, in that light, it's not unreasonable to imagine that the Crusaders and Falcons might sometimes be at odds but might other times work together. Or if you accept the premise that they're units of honor that have been allowed to keep their own insignia while still serving the same lord, you could imagine squabbles between rival units even on the same side, in terms of which unit is superior in strength or honor, which officer and unit gets the more favorable territory, assignment, or fiefdom, etc., etc. (Maybe that ad in which the Falcons had taken over the Crusader castle was the medieval equivalent of a prank, or just a stunt to tweak the nose of another unit....)

CVfan13 wrote:Also, I think since Majisto and Willa are the only magic users, they may share similar pasts, so I'd think they would be likely to team up during a war.

Or maybe that would make them rivals. After all, mages tend to love nothing more than their own power, and tend to view other mages as tools for the acquisition of power or foes to be dealt with.

CVfan13 wrote:Just out of curiosity, who do you view as the leader of the Fright Knights? Willa the Witch or Basil the Batlord? (I personally think it's Willa)

I claim no particular expertise on this, but when I imagine it, I see Basil as the figurehead, with Willa being the one who wields the real magic (and thus the real power). Maybe she likes to manipulate from behind the scenes. Maybe she believes that magic works best when concealed. Or maybe the idea of working for a mage is just too scary to a bunch of superstitious troops, so she allows Basil to appear to be in charge, as long as he does what she wants.

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Re: Mixing factions

Postby CVfan13 » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:46 pm

SEdmison wrote:Or if you accept the premise that they're units of honor that have been allowed to keep their own insignia while still serving the same lord, you could imagine squabbles between rival units even on the same side, in terms of which unit is superior in strength or honor, which officer and unit gets the more favorable territory, assignment, or fiefdom, etc., etc. (Maybe that ad in which the Falcons had taken over the Crusader castle was the medieval equivalent of a prank, or just a stunt to tweak the nose of another unit....)


So, if you were to take the way I connected my BFF and KMF, for example, they could be theoretically serving under the same lord in the same castle but be wearing their own family insignias? That makes sense, as historically, because knights always had their own coat of arms, indicative of their family name.

SEdmison wrote:I claim no particular expertise on this, but when I imagine it, I see Basil as the figurehead, with Willa being the one who wields the real magic (and thus the real power). Maybe she likes to manipulate from behind the scenes. Maybe she believes that magic works best when concealed. Or maybe the idea of working for a mage is just too scary to a bunch of superstitious troops, so she allows Basil to appear to be in charge, as long as he does what she wants.


That's original way of looking at it. I think I used to imagine this when I was younger, but what if Basil is Willa's son? After all, like Willa, he uses a wand, can control the flying machines, and can tame the dragons...come to think of it, weren't Majisto and his Dragon Masters supposed to be the only ones with dominion over the dragons? Perhaps if Majisto and Willa aren't allies now, they once shared magic secrets, or were even taught by the same master. Or, it's even possible that Willa stole something from him that allowed him to control the dragons, or they could even be siblings OR Willa could be Majisto's daughter, so by the time the Fright Knights arose, the time of Dragon Masters had long past, and Willa took up being a creepy goth (bat emblem)?
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Re: Mixing factions

Postby AK_Brickster » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:26 pm

I almost hate to jump in, seeing as how you two are having such a great dialogue on the subject. I also have to say that this topic is really my favorite one in the whole "LEGO Castle Sets" thread. It's so interesting to see other people's views on the matter.

Personally, I've always viewed the Black Falcons as good guys, although they don't seem quite "as good", if you will, as the various "Lion" factions for some reason. I also have a hard time deciding who is the "Boss" faction. Is it the Crownies, the Royal Knights, the "New Lions" from the Kingdoms line? All of them have "King" figures, if I recall correctly, so who's the top dog? Maybe they all rule different regions but are amicable to each other? If that's the case, maybe it would make sense to align the BF's with the Crownies, since they share a main color (blue).

If we wanted to complicate the story a bit, I prefer to think of the Crownies as the least-liked faction among their respective peasantry. The crown logo screams "oppressive taxation" to me, so while they may be peaceable, I think their serfs have it just a little worse than those who serve below one of the more noble overlords. This view would also align with my previous feeling that the BF's aren't quite as "good", so their alignment with the Crowns would make sense.
Depending on how nasty you wanted the Crowns to be, you could assign the Wolfpack as their greedy tax-collecting thugs (who obviously skim quite a bit off the top for themselves, adding to the burden on the common layperson).

Since I personally only have no more than about a dozen of any one faction, I usually end up making the Crowns as the ruling faction (because I have more of them than any other) and the lesser factions are small groups of foot-soldiers who support/serve a mounted knight/lord. This lines up nicely with my understanding of the actual situation during medieval times, where a King would have dozens or more knights and nobility who pledged their allegiance with various numbers of troops, depending on the level of wealth/power of the individual knight/lord. My Forestmen don't take part in organized skirmishes between sides, and the Orcs/Trolls don't fight alongside human "baddies". Their sort of universally evil, and don't ally themselves with anyone. Sort of like the polar-opposite of the Forestmen.

As for wizards, things get a bit more complicated now that the current Dragon faction has their own, and there are quite a few other permutations out there.
Majesto usually ends up playing more of a "Merlin-esque" type roll in my world, usually taking up residence in a tall tower amongst the good guys. The new Dragon wizard plays the part of leader of the new Dragon faction, and Willa usually finds herself among the other "bad" factions, since I don't really have any Fright Knight contingent, to speak of. She also would be useful as the head of a large "undead" army, if I ever got around to making one.

OK, I've just about written a novel, so I'll digress and see what you guys have to say about all of this!
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Re: Mixing factions

Postby Fraslund » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:16 pm

I am a totally lego newbie and this current crop of factions for me is the first. I came in right at the end of the Fantasy Era so 95% of all my figs are kingdoms. For me I dont look at it in terms of good vs evil, just different factions.

I personally think the level of awesomeness is much greater with the Dragon Knights (doesnt hurt that forest green is my fav color!) and In my head the dragon knights are bound to the dragons and protect them, and more mystical faction whereas the lion kingdom is more of a mundane traditional feudal monarchy. The dragon knights would tend to ally with centaurs, elves, and dwarves, whereas the lion knights would be more trusting of less mystical factions.

In my mocs I am building for brickcon I based the dragon knight fortress around this premise and made the magical wizard theme just as important as the martial whereas the lion knight castle, was more traditional and mundane.
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Re: Mixing factions

Postby CVfan13 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:36 pm

[quote=AK_Brickster]
I almost hate to jump in, seeing as how you two are having such a great dialogue on the subject.
[/quote]

No worries, this isn't an exclusive conversation (I'd have felt awkward if nobody else spoke up soon!)

That's a really interesting view of the Crownies as "oppressive" to the peasant folk. To be honest, I've never ctually thought of how the peasants feel about all this ruckus, but that's widely Lego's fault for not making them more significant! Anyway, I can see the Black Falcons as aligning with those mean Crownies.

Here's a question for you all, though, do you consider everything post-2000 as being in the same canon as everything before it? For me, I only ever consider the classic Lions up to the Fright Knights, and everything after that are in their own little stories. I never would consider how the new Lions relate to the Royal Knights, for example, because they're just an updated version of the new theme, and their official sets would never look good next each other, nor their minifigs.

fraslund wrote:I am a totally lego newbie and this current crop of factions for me is the first. I came in right at the end of the Fantasy Era so 95% of all my figs are kingdoms.


Woah, cool, that's really new! You're missing out on a ton of classic greatness there, but IMO, the newer colors and figs look better for MOCs, if used right.
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Re: Mixing factions

Postby AK_Brickster » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:19 am

CVfan13 wrote:
Here's a question for you all, though, do you consider everything post-2000 as being in the same canon as everything before it? For me, I only ever consider the classic Lions up to the Fright Knights, and everything after that are in their own little stories. I never would consider how the new Lions relate to the Royal Knights, for example, because they're just an updated version of the new theme, and their official sets would never look good next each other, nor their minifigs.
I personally don't care for the Royal Knights at all. They are one of my least favorite factions, along with the Bulls (I don't own any KK2, so we'll leave them out of this, lol). I just think their heraldry really doesn't go well with any of the other ones. It's too bright and cartoony, or something (The Bulls are the opposite. Very drab and boring, and they don't strike me as anything more than some half-rate knight's troops who probably lives in some mudhole swampland).
Ideally, I wouldn't mix old (classic) and new factions together in one MOC, just because the styles of the minifigs are so different. But if we're talking full-scale, grab every last man, boy, and minifig kind of battle where you have to use everyone you've got, then I would put the Royal Knights in there right next to the Crusaders and the new Kingdom Lions (grimacingly).
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Re: Mixing factions

Postby SEdmison » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:04 am

AK_Brickster wrote:I almost hate to jump in, seeing as how you two are having such a great dialogue on the subject. I also have to say that this topic is really my favorite one in the whole "LEGO Castle Sets" thread. It's so interesting to see other people's views on the matter.

All views are welcome. I intentionally phrased my post as an open question to the forum. I would never try to inflict any single viewpoint of how the factions must work; on the contrary, I wanted to see whether we already agree on enough to find some sort of standard.

AK_Brickster wrote:Personally, I've always viewed the Black Falcons as good guys, although they don't seem quite "as good", if you will, as the various "Lion" factions for some reason. I also have a hard time deciding who is the "Boss" faction. Is it the Crownies, the Royal Knights, the "New Lions" from the Kingdoms line? All of them have "King" figures, if I recall correctly, so who's the top dog? Maybe they all rule different regions but are amicable to each other? If that's the case, maybe it would make sense to align the BF's with the Crownies, since they share a main color (blue).

I tend to agree that the Falcons are maybe not quite as by-the-book, knights-in-shining-armor "good". It could be that they're a little shady, it could be that they like to tweak the noses of the other factions, it could be that they're led by someone who's an unconventional knight or lord, but for whatever reason, they seem like the type to go take over the Crusader castle. :P
I don't think that there has to be a single "boss" faction. In fact, I would propose that it's better that there not be one master faction, for a couple of reasons. From the standpoint of a story or a fantasy world, there are more interesting narratives to be written among multiple different characters and factions, each with their own agendas. (This, in my view, is what makes the Song of Ice and Fire world of Westeros so compelling.) From the standpoint of a backdrop for builders making their own castles and scenes, I'd like people to be able to contribute whether they started building in 1985, 1995, 2005, etc., and when you started collecting will greatly influence what sets were available to you and thus which factions predominate in your collection. I don't want to tell a kid who just bought his first set "sorry kid, your Lion Knights are subservient to my Crusaders" (or Falcons or Dragons or whatever).
As for the shared color, I tend to look on that as coincidence. If we assume that LEGO factions' symbols are patterned (loosely!) after medieval heraldry, lots of knights might happen to have blue in their coat of arms without being related; relationships would be more based on the animals and objects in the arms (and even those would have to be repeated somewhere, just because there was a small lexicon of symbols from which to draw).

AK_Brickster wrote:If we wanted to complicate the story a bit, I prefer to think of the Crownies as the least-liked faction among their respective peasantry. The crown logo screams "oppressive taxation" to me,

I love it!

AK_Brickster wrote:...so while they may be peaceable, I think their serfs have it just a little worse than those who serve below one of the more noble overlords. This view would also align with my previous feeling that the BF's aren't quite as "good", so their alignment with the Crowns would make sense.

Well, any alignments between factions could be temporary. The Falcons could be hired by the Crowns, or the two sides could be fighting a common enemy, or the Falcons' commander could be friendly with the Crowns' king, etc. But yeah, I can see those two sides working together.

AK_Brickster wrote:Depending on how nasty you wanted the Crowns to be, you could assign the Wolfpack as their greedy tax-collecting thugs (who obviously skim quite a bit off the top for themselves, adding to the burden on the common layperson).

Well, here again, I assume that the Wolves are out for their own ends, and thus could be hired be a less-than-sympathetic lord, but then again, I'd expect them to take more for themselves than they handed over to the lord, and thus probably wouldn't be the right guys for the job.

AK_Brickster wrote:Since I personally only have no more than about a dozen of any one faction, I usually end up making the Crowns as the ruling faction (because I have more of them than any other) and the lesser factions are small groups of foot-soldiers who support/serve a mounted knight/lord. This lines up nicely with my understanding of the actual situation during medieval times, where a King would have dozens or more knights and nobility who pledged their allegiance with various numbers of troops, depending on the level of wealth/power of the individual knight/lord.

Well, a lot depends on the era of history and the region that you look at. The truth is that the feudal system was not one system, and it evolved over time and was applied differently over different populations. But that's awesome for us, because it gives us lots of leeway in organizing our own factions for our own builds. For instance, I tend to work under the assumption that monarchs tended not to have standing armies of any significant size (though they would have house guards, and possibly city watch over a capital city), and in times of war they would levy troops from their vassal knights. But you can organize your factions into more late medieval standing armies and envision long-standing conflicts on the scale of the Hundred Years' War. The great thing here is that we're both right. :)

AK_Brickster wrote:My Forestmen don't take part in organized skirmishes between sides,

I agree. They inhabit the greenwood and hold up wealthy merchants, evade the local authorities, and generally make merry.

AK_Brickster wrote:...and the Orcs/Trolls don't fight alongside human "baddies". Their sort of universally evil, and don't ally themselves with anyone. Sort of like the polar-opposite of the Forestmen.

I agree. I look at them as even less civilized than the Wolfpack, and too volatile for most leaders to risk trying to deal with them or hire them. On the other hand, I wouldn't put it past a really bad dude from enlisting their aid somehow. (If you think about it, one of the things that made a bad guy like Sauron in Lord of the Rings so bad was that he was enlisting all the worst factions in the region and binding them into his service.)

AK_Brickster wrote:As for wizards, things get a bit more complicated now that the current Dragon faction has their own, and there are quite a few other permutations out there.
Majesto usually ends up playing more of a "Merlin-esque" type roll in my world, usually taking up residence in a tall tower amongst the good guys. The new Dragon wizard plays the part of leader of the new Dragon faction, and Willa usually finds herself among the other "bad" factions, since I don't really have any Fright Knight contingent, to speak of. She also would be useful as the head of a large "undead" army, if I ever got around to making one.

Yeah, I think we can anticipate that the special characters are likely to find their way into multiple different roles in different people's collections. If you need a wizard, you're going to grab some parts that scream "wizard" and build one, and you may not be thinking specifically of Willa or Majisto or whoever when you do that. That's fine, and I don't think that it necessarily has to destroy our made-up world "continuity". In my book, if you call a character Willa, she's Willa, and if you call her Precilla, she's Precilla.
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Re: Mixing factions

Postby SEdmison » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:14 am

fraslund wrote:I am a totally lego newbie and this current crop of factions for me is the first. I came in right at the end of the Fantasy Era so 95% of all my figs are kingdoms. For me I dont look at it in terms of good vs evil, just different factions.

I agree. I think that "good" versus "evil" is a bit of a straitjacket. I also think in terms of individual factions, and what I want to get at is whether we see common themes or tropes or motivations in some of those factions. I think it's safe to assume that trolls (or orcs) are likely to be tribal, organized into small warbands that raid each other and any civilized folks who happen to be vulnerable. I also think that if you look at the entire corpus of fantasy literature, it's safe to say that dwarves tend to be stalwart protectors of mountain strongholds, wherein they mine precious and strong metals and forge amazing weapons and make fantastic jewelry. I think it's safe to say that the Forestmen are patterned after Robin Hood and his Merry Men. So my question is whether we can establish these same kinds of general-level observations about some of the other factions (and whether we want to).

fraslund wrote:I personally think the level of awesomeness is much greater with the Dragon Knights (doesnt hurt that forest green is my fav color!) and In my head the dragon knights are bound to the dragons and protect them, and more mystical faction whereas the lion kingdom is more of a mundane traditional feudal monarchy. The dragon knights would tend to ally with centaurs, elves, and dwarves, whereas the lion knights would be more trusting of less mystical factions.

So do you see the dragons as being fierce and hating other humans? Or as individual in personality as humans are? Or (as is the case in fantasy worlds like those of Dungeons and Dragons) having general tendencies based on variety or color? Or something else?

fraslund wrote:In my mocs I am building for brickcon I based the dragon knight fortress around this premise and made the magical wizard theme just as important as the martial whereas the lion knight castle, was more traditional and mundane.

Cool. Looking forward to seeing them!
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Re: Mixing factions

Postby SEdmison » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:32 am

CVfan13 wrote:Here's a question for you all, though, do you consider everything post-2000 as being in the same canon as everything before it? For me, I only ever consider the classic Lions up to the Fright Knights, and everything after that are in their own little stories. I never would consider how the new Lions relate to the Royal Knights, for example, because they're just an updated version of the new theme, and their official sets would never look good next each other, nor their minifigs.

I want to view all of these factions as part of one big system, though I don't rule out the possibility of having some big, broad subdivisions in terms of era, continent, or region in order to explain some of the differences. Maybe magic was common hundreds of years ago. Voila! Fantasy Era. Maybe dragons are only still present in a certain area. Voila! Dragon Knights. And so on. But actually, I don't see anything wrong with having certain post-2000 figures lined up right next to 1980's-era figures. Not just any figures, mind you, but I think it can and does work. For instance, if I'm trying to do a very gritty, somewhat "realistic" (as "realistic" as anything can be when it's built with ABS plastic from tiny figures with child-like proportions and smily faces; let's not take ourselves too seriously here!) display, I'm not going to drop the bright-green and sky-blue and bright-red knights into that display. If I'm trying to recreate the Battle of Agincourt, I'm not going to drop elves and trolls into that scene. However, if you put a bunch of line troops together on one side and a bunch of line troops together on the other, it doesn't matter to me if either or both factions are from the post-2000 era; I'm more concerned that the scene be visually interesting and communicate whatever it is that I want to say.

CVfan13 wrote:
fraslund wrote:I am a totally lego newbie and this current crop of factions for me is the first. I came in right at the end of the Fantasy Era so 95% of all my figs are kingdoms.


Woah, cool, that's really new! You're missing out on a ton of classic greatness there, but IMO, the newer colors and figs look better for MOCs, if used right.

See, personally, I think that's awesome. If LEGO (and in particular the castle-related theme) exists for long enough, you have to assume that over the years there will be more people whose collections span smaller and smaller parts of the entire universe of parts and sets, and we need to account for that and encourage it. Not everyone should have to shell out bazillions of bucks to buy the yellow-castle-era figures to be one of the cool kids. :D

I do agree that some of the more recent figures look awesome in MOCs, and I would give two main reasons for that:
    1) The newer figures just have more detail. Let's face it: LEGO has gotten better and better at their craft over time, and they make torsos with more detailed printing on them, and they now make legs with printing on them (which was unheard of in the earliest days of any LEGO figures, including castle figures). That's awesome! And you don't have to use each part for the figure it was intended for; that's the great thing about LEGO. You can take a really cool armored torso and put it with some different legs, throw on a cowl or a hood and a cape, and suddenly you've made a badass looking hero with way more visual appeal than even the best figure from the 80's.
    2) Many of the newer figures tend to have more color and/or more contrast. In some cases that makes them look a little like neon highlighters (ahem), but in many cases that makes a figure that stands out in a crowd or against a brown building. That can draw a viewer's eye to the hero of the scene (which is good!), and can provide a splash of color.
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Re: Mixing factions

Postby SEdmison » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:46 am

AK_Brickster wrote:
CVfan13 wrote:
Here's a question for you all, though, do you consider everything post-2000 as being in the same canon as everything before it? For me, I only ever consider the classic Lions up to the Fright Knights, and everything after that are in their own little stories. I never would consider how the new Lions relate to the Royal Knights, for example, because they're just an updated version of the new theme, and their official sets would never look good next each other, nor their minifigs.
I personally don't care for the Royal Knights at all. They are one of my least favorite factions, along with the Bulls (I don't own any KK2, so we'll leave them out of this, lol). I just think their heraldry really doesn't go well with any of the other ones. It's too bright and cartoony, or something (The Bulls are the opposite. Very drab and boring, and they don't strike me as anything more than some half-rate knight's troops who probably lives in some mudhole swampland).
Ideally, I wouldn't mix old (classic) and new factions together in one MOC, just because the styles of the minifigs are so different. But if we're talking full-scale, grab every last man, boy, and minifig kind of battle where you have to use everyone you've got, then I would put the Royal Knights in there right next to the Crusaders and the new Kingdom Lions (grimacingly).

Aw, don't be a hater! :) I can imagine a land where the heraldry is mostly solid-colored swatches (ala "classic" or yellow castle), and another land where the heraldry is mostly animal sigils, another land where the heraldry is stylized and fantastic (ala lions rampant and griffons and falcons); as a basis in reality, consider differences in heraldry between, say, medieval Germanic states versus that of France versus that of England (or Scotland, or ...). I can further imagine knights from those lands coming together for tourneys, fighting one another on the battlefield, and for other reasons. I think that your ability to incorporate your various troops is limited only by your imagination versus the rigidity of your thinking. I don't want that to come across as a jab, and part of what makes this whole thing great is that there are folks who love the different factions. I personally like the Bulls for a certain role: a faction of bullies who come to tourneys just to break skulls or show up on a battlefield to strike fear into the "good" guys. But the point is that we all find various uses for various factions, we all have our favorites, we all have our systems and organizations for how we incorporate the figures we have. (And if you're hating on those Bulls, trade 'em to me! :sly:)
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Re: Mixing factions

Postby lord_of_orks » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:16 pm

here's how things work in my castle kingdoms.
the fright knights and the skeletons are the only truly evil factions in my kingdoms, they are normally allied with each other because they both seam to rely heavily on magic.
I picture the forest men and the wolf pack as being very similar yet all ways being at odds with each other, competing for the best loot.
the bulls I see more as a a roaming band of resentful disonered knights who go about pillaging villages and doing other dastardly deeds.
I agree about what AK_Brickster said about the crownies, they are for the most part good but are slightly oppressive
I like to think of all the lino based factions(Crusaders, Royal Knights,KKI, kingdoms lion knights) allied against all the dragon based factions(Black Knights, Dragon Masters, kingdoms dragon knights)nether side being purely good or evil.
I see the BFs as an kingdom the lies far away and rarely sees combat.
I think of the orks as a chaotic group allied with nobody who run around pillaging, steeling from, and attacking every body with no reel plan.
the KK2 knights seam like a band of village idiots who some how got some armor and painted it bright colors.
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Re: Mixing factions

Postby CVfan13 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:06 pm

lord_of_orks wrote:the KK2 knights seam like a band of village idiots who some how got some armor and painted it bright colors.


Haha! I love this! And King Mathias is their big goofy leader? And the Castle of Morcia is a actually a painted cardboard box structure? And these "scorpion knights" they claim to always be fighting are just a bunch of bugs that live in th back alleys?

Well, ok, I got a bit carried away there, but the village idiot idea is the most original I've heard. Personally, I don't include them in any continuity, and aside from the faces and the occasional sword, I never use any of their figures. I would love Rascus' helm if it were black or gray, even though I love green. And I really am tempted to find a use for the Unicorn shield. But yeah....

AK_Brickster wrote:It's too bright and cartoony, or something (The Bulls are the opposite. Very drab and boring, and they don't strike me as anything more than some half-rate knight's troops who probably lives in some mudhole swampland).


Well, the sets imply that they live in their siege engines, lol! (which is probably in some kind of murky swampland)
I'm not too fond of the minifigs either. I liked Weasel's torso the best, but to be honest, I really don't like the use of the Bull itself. It makes me think of them as a traveling band of matadors, more than knights.
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