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Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:56 pm
by Vladimir
Anybody else noticed that they threw in Black Falcon insignia on the ship's side? Very lazy of them I think, perhaps one of those moments where they had a few spare shields lying around and just chucked them in!

http://cdn2.sulitstatic.com/images/2012/1206/205000640_204716976dff2cd640ef17ebd71eb8efcfa76be7ef04475b8.jpg

Re: Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:23 pm
by JoshWedin
Hard to say. There was a lot of discussion about it when the set came out. I can't imagine they still had shields laying about in quantity, but it is possible.

Josh

Re: Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:25 pm
by Owen
Durmstrang Ship 4768 was released in 2005. To the best of my knowledge, the last previous set that contained black falcon shields was Black Falcon's Fortress 10039 in 2002 re-released as part of the short lived legends line. It contained one of each black falcon shield variety, blue bordered and yellow bordered. Before that, Guarded Inn 10000 was re-released in 2001 and contained only the yellow bordered variety.

Here is where we have to make assumptions. I bet they printed the same amount of shield varieties for whatever reason (maybe simplicity, or banking on the legends line being more successful and therefore more re-releases), leaving a surplus of blue bordered ones. Not wanting to waste a part, the blue bordered variety ended up in set 4768 on the advice of a savvy LEGO accountant. :lol:

Personally, I find the reuse of that shield a great way to snag more sigils of a well loved faction from the past and consider it more of a blessing than laziness. Just my take though.

Re: Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:26 pm
by Bluesecrets
The shields in the HP set were actually made with bley and not old grey. So is it possible they were a left over from the Legend sets? Possibly. Either way, I'm glad because I don't care if the backs of my shields are bley or grey...just as long as they are Black Falcon, I am a happy camper.


Hahaha *edit* Like minds Owen..you just pressed submit before me. Excellent post.

Re: Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:32 pm
by Owen
Bluesecrets wrote:The shields in the HP set were actually made with bley and not old grey.


Good catch. Almost all but discredits my argument. All the more strange now, but no question a very welcome part in any set. :)

Re: Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:13 am
by AK_Brickster
Vlad and I discussed this a bit and I was also of the opinion that they were likely leftover from the Legends re-release and for such an insignificant item, it wasn't cost effective for them to develop a new print, so they just used one from a fairly recent set (could have easily been leftover quantities, as suggested).

In any case, like Blue said, more BF shields is only ever a good thing!

Re: Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:09 pm
by Sir Bragallot
'The ship does not float' :roflol:

I think people probably have the right idea and it was just left over. You know, like all the Shadow Knights suddenly having Johnny Thunder heads.

Re: Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:28 am
by Bruce N H
Hey,

1. As Blue notes, the Durmstrang shields were in light bley, since this set was produced in 2005, a year after the color change. Therefore they could not have been leftovers from a set that was produced in 2002, two years before that color even existed.
2. The BFF Legend was a specialty item, sold through S@H and in LEGO brand stores, the Durmstrang set was a mass sale item in a licensed theme, sold in places like Toys R Us and Target. Because of this there were many times more of the Durmstrang set produced for the mass market than the Legends sets produced for (largely) the AFOL market. Leftovers from the Legends sets would have been used up a very short way into the production of the HP sets.
3. Okay, say we grant all of that, and LEGO just completely misjudged the popularity of the BFF and overproduced, so they had all of this inventory lying around. Where are all of the yellow Tudor walls, 2x2 BF flags, BF torsos, and yellow half-arches, that have never appeared since? On this 'leftover' theory, there must be rooms full of these items somewhere in Billund.

I'm sorry, but this theory doesn't hold water. Rather chalk it up to a combination of a little laziness - they needed some shields, and rather than come up with another design they re-used one they already had - and a bit of an Easter egg for AFOLs that some LEGO designer thought would be fun to include for fans of this popular faction ... just like the reworked Falcon crest in the Kingdoms Joust set.

Bruce

Re: Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:51 pm
by AK_Brickster
Makes sense, Bruce. That's basically what I had figured, was that it was either surplus from the BFF, or just a cost-effective way to get a shield print out there since they already had done them fairly recently for the BFF. Since it's not the former, I agree that it is likely the latter.

PS - I wish it was the surplus issue, because that means that somewhere out there, a tub of yellow tudor walls is sitting just waiting to find a loving home :eyebrows:

Re: Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:51 am
by Vladimir
So in conclusion we all more or less agree that it is most likely a case of lazyitis on Lego's part. :snore:

Re: Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:49 am
by Bluesecrets
So in conclusion we all more or less agree that it is most likely a case of lazyitis on Lego's part. :snore:


Um...no. I said I was happy that it was included. And I don't believe it was lazy. In a lot of sets I find pieces in colors that I go "um...now why are you yellow when the set has no yellow in it at all?" and quite frankly, I don't find that to be lazy. I think sometimes there are little "easter eggs" in sets. Parts in colors that maybe aren't used often that they decided that its time to use for the people who are collecting.

And the real thing is, the only person who really can say why that part is in that set is the design team or designer that designed it. It is entirely possible that the person who designed it liked that shield so much that they wanted it included. Or that they thought it looked like the emblem of another magical school or...I could go on and on. There are no big bins of random brick just sitting around their factories. The CEE team told many people this during their talks at cons.

But in the end, does it really matter? We got more black falcon shields...yay!

Re: Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:22 pm
by Owen
Are there any other examples of classic heraldry being reused in bley-era sets? Or is it the Black Falcon's alone who are the favorite "easter egg" with such examples as Battle Dragon, The Durmstrang Ship, and Kingdoms Joust?

Re: Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:34 pm
by AK_Brickster
In a lot of sets I find pieces in colors that I go "um...now why are you yellow when the set has no yellow in it at all?"
I think that's usually because set designers are normally required (or at least encouraged) to choose parts from whatever is currently in production. You'll see in a lot of sets where a strange piece is used because that's what is currently being made. For example, #7187 "Escape from Dragon's Prison" uses Modified 1x4 Brick with Groove instead of a standard 1x4 brick because (at least this is my theory) standard 1x4 bricks weren't currently being produced in black.

In the case of the shield, I wouldn't chalk it up to "laziness" as much as choosing the most affordable solution, which was to produce something for which a very successful print was already on the books, rather than having to develop a new sigil.

Re: Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:32 am
by Bruce N H
AK_Brickster wrote:For example, #7187 "Escape from Dragon's Prison" uses Modified 1x4 Brick with Groove instead of a standard 1x4 brick because (at least this is my theory) standard 1x4 bricks weren't currently being produced in black.


Sorry to burst bubbles, but standard 1x4 bricks were included in at least three 2011 sets, according to Peeron. Also, the brick isn't turned around to hide the groove, but rather the groove is clearly visible on the front of the model, which implies that this is how the designer wanted it to look, rather than a work-around due to some artificial limitation on what bricks can be used.

Bruce

Re: Harry Potter Durmstrang Ship 4768 - Black Falcon shield?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:49 pm
by AK_Brickster
Sorry to burst bubbles...


*POP!* :twitch: