Crusader's Lion

Mr. D · Post by **Mr. D** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:12 am

Hey, does anybody know how the Crusaders got their lion insignia instead of a cross? Sorry if this is a poor or boring subject, but I've been wondering for a long time.

And does anybody know if I used the right "their"?

Mr. D

LEGOFREAK · Post by **LEGOFREAK** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:22 am

Mr. D wrote:Hey, does anybody know how the Crussaders got their lion insignia instead of a cross? Sorry if this is a poor or boring subject, but I've been wondering for a long time.
And does anybody know if I used the right "their"?

Mr. D

I dont think there is a reason why except thats what the Lego company did. Maybe it was to avoid any sort of religious overtones? The lion was favored in England, the Fleur-de-Lys in France and the Eagle in Germany...more a matter of style I am pretty sure..

If not - someone will correct both you and me.

Legofreak

PS

you used the right their, but it's spelled Crusaders

I always spell Tuesday wrong (except now because I checked it

)

Jedipawn · Post by **Jedipawn** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:19 am

I think that Legofreak got it right on the head. They have made a point to stay away from any religious undertones at all. And a cross would be more of a "in you face" statement. Even if it was not ment to be. Also, Lions are "noble, strong, brave, king of the land" and all that stuff. You know, symbollistic and all.

Jedipawn

Devari · Post by **Devari** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:23 am

Jedipawn wrote:I think that Legofreak got it right on the head. They have made a point to stay away from any religious undertones at all. And a cross would be more of a "in you face" statement. Even if it was not ment to be. Also, Lions are "noble, strong, brave, king of the land" and all that stuff. You know, symbollistic and all.

Jedipawn

Even if lions are, in reality, lazy. :p

On-topic, I must agree with Legofreak. Also, perhaps they were lions because of King Richard...? After all, he was a Crusader and he was "Richard the Lion", correct?

Jedipawn · Post by **Jedipawn** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 6:28 am

You are quite right. Very lazy...

Richard the Lionhearted, I believe. Any history buffs out there know for sure?

Jedipawn

Post by **architect** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:16 am

The lion knights were called "crusaders" later. Originally there were sets like "King's Castle". So these are the kings men, later called crusaders.

Ben E.
Sets Admin

Jedipawn · Post by **Jedipawn** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:58 am

ok so the question of "why the lion" would be answered by; " the lion is the king of the animal world... ok got it

Mr. D · Post by **Mr. D** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:31 pm

Thanks, guys. And thank you for the spelling correction, Legofreak.

Mr. D

JPinoy · Post by **JPinoy** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:42 pm

Richard the Lionhearted was the leader of the Crusaders at one point. With his entering the Crusades, the Crusaders finally had a leader that could match Salahaudeen (Saladin) in combat.

Overtime through many battles, the two great military leaders developed a respect for each other, even though they actually never met face to face. Soon they both agreed to some peace settlement.

Jedipawn · Post by **Jedipawn** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:17 pm

Now there is a good idea for a lego battle!!! Time to start collection info on the middle east during that time...

Jedipawn

Jojo · Post by **Jojo** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:52 pm

Hello!

architect wrote:The lion knights were called "crusaders" later. Originally there were sets like "King's Castle". So these are the kings men, later called crusaders.

May I ask: Who actually invented the name "Crusaders" for the knights from 6080? I've got several US catalogues but none of them sports the name "Crusaders" for those Lion Knights. The only set I can think of that has "Crusader" in its name is 1877 Crusader's Cart, and that's not even a "Crusaders" set but a Forestmen set.*

This said I'd suggest not to bound slavishly to any set names but rather call them by their numbers. While the numbers are the same allover the world the names differ not only in different languages but even also in different countries with the same language. Please have a look at the 1988's UK catalogue (pic=link):

*) Legend has it that a nobleman returned from a crusade, found his castle destroyed and turned into Robin Hood the revenger. For this he had to hide from (which preposition is requested by "to hide"?) the authorities. Maybe this is the story that the set 1877 wants to tell. As you probably know the cart features a hiding place for Robin Hood.

Bye
Jojo

Troy T. Moore · Post by **Troy T. Moore** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:18 pm

Haven't heard from you in a while Jojo! Busy building or with "real life stuff" no doubt. Looking at that catalogue page triggers the salivary glands in my mouth

Sadly this is one of those names, that although commonly used in certain circles (ie, Lego fans calling them Crusaders) is in a broader context not PC. It may be more accurate to refer to them as English, and yes, the BF's could be Germanic. I tend not so much to dwell on the names, but admire the marking these torsos bear. Beats a monkey any day!

Sir_Marcellus · Post by **Sir_Marcellus** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:25 pm

I never thought of them as Crusaders, I always say King's Men and put "Crusaders" in parenthesis so people will know who I'm talking about.

Yeah, they are definitely not Crusaders. While the Falcons could be Germanic, they may be Normans.

Post by **Ye Olde Republic** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:40 pm

I'd love to have all the sets on that catalogue page!

It's funny, I don't remember any of the booklets released in Canada refering to any of the forsetmen as "Robin Hood" specifically. Obviously, that was/is the intention though.

Interesting.....it would seem that LEGO castle themes with a storyline attached to them is not a new concept.

Post by **architect** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:59 pm

Jojo wrote:

May I ask: Who actually invented the name "Crusaders" for the knights from 6080? I've got several US catalogues but none of them sports the name "Crusaders" for those Lion Knights. The only set I can think of that has "Crusader" in its name is 1877 Crusader's Cart, and that's not even a "Crusaders" set but a Forestmen set.*

This said I'd suggest not to bound slavishly to any set names but rather call them by their numbers. While the numbers are the same allover the world the names differ not only in different languages but even also in different countries with the same language. Please have a look at the 1988's UK catalogue

Hi Jojo,

You bring up excellent points. Perhaps I can look into the origin of the name "crusaders" I never use it myself. I prefer Kings men or lion knights.

I assume it was meant to be lion knights and eagle knights according to UK set names (before the eagles became falcons)

Ben E.
Sets Admin

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