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CCC XIV Winners!

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Re: CCC XIV Winners!

Postby AK_Brickster » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:54 am

I agree with Disco, particularly for sites like Flickr that automatically resize everything for you, but allow you to zoom in to a full-rez version if you want to.
I know the site is called "Classic-Castle" and things can be slow to change around here, but if you're still using PhotoBucket or MOCPages, it's time to "get with the times" and get over to Flickr, for the sake of the judges. ;)
Think of the dozens (dozens of dozens??) of hours that Blue would save by not having to inspect photo sizes and send out emails to the naughty list with such a requirement! Plus, we all get to enjoy higher quality photos that way :)

And as for the judging results, it's true that the judges here seem to prefer a "classic" aesthetic. Since judging is subjective, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm in that camp as well, generally preferring clean lines and presentation. You learn to build for your audience after a few goes.

As for scoring, I think it would be cool to see the top 5 scores (total entry score, not broken up by individual rubric point totals - I agree with Bruce that something that detailed would promote bickering, and also would take a long time to post). If people wanted to know their exact rubric scores, they could PM a designated person to get those scores provided. Maybe that would be less time intensive for Bruce than a feedback thread, while still helping people to see what needed improvement (Am I not fitting the theme? Is my presentation terrible? Etc.)

I didn't participate this year, but congrats to the winners and thanks to everyone for giving me some delicious LEGO eye-candy to ogle over with all of these terrific entries!

And thanks to the judges for all of the work that goes into a contest like this!
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Re: CCC XIV Winners!

Postby TheLordOfBricks » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:35 pm

One last question, when will the Master Builder be announced? I am pretty sure I know who it is though... (A certain Snyder brother... :D )
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Re: CCC XIV Winners!

Postby Bluesecrets » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:50 pm

TheLordOfBricks wrote:One last question, when will the Master Builder be announced? I am pretty sure I know who it is though... (A certain Snyder brother... :D )


When we finally agree to it. We are currently in discussion about it.
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Re: CCC XIV Winners!

Postby Grover » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:42 am

I will say that I did not participate this year and in fact am not very active here anymore because of last year's contest. I realize I am not a particularly good builder, but I was disappointed with the lack of feedback from last year's contest. I wanted feedback on my builds so that I could improve them, and I received very little. I had no idea why the judges didn't like what I had built. Between the lack of feedback and the amount of time I spent building and photographing my builds, I didn't enter this year. Further, I don't plan on entering the contest in the future until such a time as: a. I feel my builds are at a competitive level with everyone else and b. I am interested in one of the prizes. In my opinion, there is little to no incentive to enter the contest to try and improve one's building. I am active over on eurobricks now because I can get feedback on my builds there. I'll continue to check in here once a month or so, but that's about it. I haven't really said anything until now, but felt I might as well make my opinion known.

I would like to say thank you to the judges for their time, which I know is quite a bit, and those who donated prizes. I really enjoy looking at the builds and think it's great to prompt people to build new castle MOCs.
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Re: CCC XIV Winners!

Postby Bluesecrets » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:25 pm

I am seeing a pattern as I read and listen. You want feedback.

Every answer I have given has been honest, here is some honesty. If you go back and read the rules of the CCC, no where does it say feedback will be given. It never has. Yes, in the past some of the judges have offered to give it to those who asked. They did that because THEY wanted to, not because it was required or built into the contest.

So yes, you are not getting feedback, because that was never part of the CCC. And that is the honest answer.

But, the admins are discussing this.
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Re: CCC XIV Winners!

Postby soccerkid6 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:30 pm

Bluesecrets wrote:
TheLordOfBricks wrote:One last question, when will the Master Builder be announced? I am pretty sure I know who it is though... (A certain Snyder brother... :D )


When we finally agree to it. We are currently in discussion about it.

Then there is still hope for the rest of us :woo:
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Re: CCC XIV Winners!

Postby Grover » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:47 pm

I would also like to clarify my position: my goal is to improve my building techniques. Therefore, I don't care what my score is (and frankly think that Bruce's point is quite right about scores being demoralizing), and I don't even care how well I did versus anyone else who put in entries. I would, however, like feedback from judges when they say "I thought the wall was too bare" or "This could have used more variety in vegetation" or something. More specific "A SNOT wall would have helped bring depth to this vignette" or whatever would be highly appreciated.

In point of fact, I saw the CCC this year, was inspired to build a ship and did so, then realized that there was no way my entry would win compared to the others, I would not receive any feedback, and the only consequence of my entry would be to waste more of the judges' time looking at something that had no hope. Rather than waste the precious volunteered time of the judges with my work, I chose not to enter. I see the CCC as a contest for professionals--those of you who already have advanced building techniques down and large collections of the interesting color shades and plant pieces. I have no motivation to enter my builds since they're not going to win and I get nothing out of it. That's fine, but if the intent here is to encourage or include younger builders, I'd say that it is not working that well.

Anyway, my 2c, and I don't want to sound ungrateful for the great judging, prizes, and awesome builds that I enjoy looking at every year!
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Re: CCC XIV Winners!

Postby LittleJohn » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:48 pm

Grover wrote:I would also like to clarify my position: my goal is to improve my building techniques. Therefore, I don't care what my score is (and frankly think that Bruce's point is quite right about scores being demoralizing), and I don't even care how well I did versus anyone else who put in entries. I would, however, like feedback from judges when they say "I thought the wall was too bare" or "This could have used more variety in vegetation" or something. More specific "A SNOT wall would have helped bring depth to this vignette" or whatever would be highly appreciated.

In point of fact, I saw the CCC this year, was inspired to build a ship and did so, then realized that there was no way my entry would win compared to the others, I would not receive any feedback, and the only consequence of my entry would be to waste more of the judges' time looking at something that had no hope. Rather than waste the precious volunteered time of the judges with my work, I chose not to enter. I see the CCC as a contest for professionals--those of you who already have advanced building techniques down and large collections of the interesting color shades and plant pieces. I have no motivation to enter my builds since they're not going to win and I get nothing out of it. That's fine, but if the intent here is to encourage or include younger builders, I'd say that it is not working that well.

Anyway, my 2c, and I don't want to sound ungrateful for the great judging, prizes, and awesome builds that I enjoy looking at every year!


About your concern on feedback: generally, judges don't have the time to go through every build that is entered into a contest, and make a comment giving constructive criticism on what they think could be improved and how to improve it. Even just writing about one thing that could be improved for 150+ builds would be a monumental task.

A good alternative, if you really want feedback, is to specifically ask for constructive critiques from other competitors or other builders in general. They're usually happy to give it, but you have to ask for it first, as some people just want to build at their own pace and not worry about making 'top class' builds (which is subjective anyways).

The way I look at contest, is as such: if you're really eager to get constructive feedback on your builds, it's a great way to get people to see your builds and thus be able to give that feedback. But if you don't get your builds out there, how will they even know about you?

The general reason people run contests is for people to have fun building in a particular theme, and be given cool prizes as incentive to do so. They want all the entries they can get, because that is what keeps it alive for future years.

As an example, if the first year of The Summer Joust (a contest Isaac and I, along with several others ran) had gotten 10 absolutely mind-blowing entries, I wouldn't have been happy. But instead, we got 130 entries from 70 different builders. The majority of which were not massive, incredibly detailed dioramas. And that was way more encouraging to me, because it showed that lots of builders enjoyed the contest and had fun.

There's not some un-written rule somewhere saying that only people with huge collections and loads of experience in the specified genre can win. Does it give them a better chance at winning? Quite possibly. But if the person who just started collecting 3 months ago, comes out with a very well done vignette-size build, they also have a good shot at winning.

As for encouraging builders, well, everyone has to start somewhere. Just take a look at this thread, and you'll see some now fabulous builders weren't always that way: http://classic-castle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19492

Continuing with that, you shouldn't be ashamed of what you build. As the thread above demonstrates, you don't just become a 'master' builder overnight; it takes time and practice. Does it come quicker for some compared to others? Sure. But it's that way with anything in life, and you don't have to win at contests to enjoy building with LEGO. Though usually, if you build long enough, the wins do eventually come.

Anyways, those are my thoughts, and I hope to see you enter next year :)
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Re: CCC XIV Winners!

Postby AK_Brickster » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:59 pm

If you're only building to win a prize, you're building for the wrong reasons, IMO.

The point of contests like this is to bring the community together, and for people to challenge themselves to build the best they can, and share that work with others, for the enjoyment of the builder and the viewer. Building is supposed to be fun, not a chore. Sharing your creations online should be an extension of your love for building, not the basis for being involved in the hobby. The prizes and recognition are nice, but shouldn't be the focus.

I agree with others that if you want feedback, you don't need to restrict yourself to asking the judges. A lot of people are hesitant to give unsolicited critiques, but if you put yourself out there, people are usually more than happy to point out areas that they think you could improve on. The Lego community is a community of builders. We generally try to give constructive critiques to help build the skills of our fellow MOC'ers, and we celebrate each other's successes with equal enthusiasm.

The judges might be the only ones qualified to tell you why *they* didn't pick your entry, but there's a plethora of amazing builders out there who probably can give you some general pointers that would help in future efforts. What wins one contest won't win another. Judging is incredibly subjective.

A contest this large and prestigious will naturally attract the best builders, so yes, it's difficult to win. I guarantee you that the winners are not in it for the prizes, but to compete with and beat the best. You can't ever hope to build to your full potential if you only will enter when you think you can win. Experience is the best teacher there is.

I hope that helps address some of your frustrations. I took an honorable mention the first year I built for the contest, and that was when I was (in my opinion) considerably less skilled than I am now. You might surprise yourself if you give it your best shot!
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Re: CCC XIV Winners!

Postby Grover » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:38 pm

I understand the concerns. I felt that I tried to put myself out there and ask for critiques with my builds, but frankly, I did not get a lot of feedback. Maybe it's that this community doesn't get much traffic anymore, I don't know. I felt more welcome and that I got a lot more feedback on eurobricks, so that is where I chose to spend my time and devote my efforts. As I said before, I am not interested in winning a prize, I am interested in improving, but this contest seems more prize driven and less improvement driven to me.

As for the contest, if I don't get feedback and the point is not to win a prize, what is it exactly? "beating the best"? That seems like showing off or an ego trip to me. Don't get me wrong--I understand the idea to put oneself out there to get better, but if I enter a beat up 1998 Ford Fiesta to a car show filled with classic cars like a 1968 Shelby Cobra or a '71 Hemicuda that are all in perfect shape, no one will bother looking at my car, so I'm not really putting myself out there. That's about the way I feel with my creations here on the CCC. Maybe one day I will return and enter something, but for now, I have no interest.

Not really trying to argue here, and am happy to agree to disagree on this. I'm merely trying to express the reasoning that I am not interested in entering the CCC, to try and give feedback to the community here if it is the goal to try and include more inexperienced builders.
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Re: CCC XIV Winners!

Postby Bluesecrets » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:07 am

When I entered the CCC (before I was an admin), it was entirely because I found the category so good that I just HAD to build for it. Even when I was a complete novice, I still build and entered. My first entry:

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/j1a3l5/Blue-Stuff/CCContest/misc1/fishing1.jpg

Sure I didn't win. Sure I wasn't planning on winning. My goal was to challenge myself to see if I could pull the idea from my head and put it into bricks and be recognizable.

And it blew my mind when Bruce decided to highlight it as something unique. I hadn't just taken the legs off the fig in the water. I had buried him in plates to look like he was standing. That was a LONG time ago, but I still remember him saying it. So I was happy and content. I'm still happy and content about that.

Then the tapestry category came up in another CCC. Oh I just could not stop myself from building for that one. In fact I built two because I loved it so much. Here's what I built:

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=359330

Again, I did not build that to win. I built it to see if I could pull off a weaved carpet look in LEGO. And then I won. Talk about shocking. Me? I won. If you knew me, you'd know I would never be the kind of person to expect to win or even be noticed to be able to win.

So then Bruce challenged me to try for master builder one year. Unfortunately, all I did that year was pull off two customized minifigs. I wanted to try more but my life was insane that fall. Just so you know ..I do not customize...EVER. I don't believe in harming my brick. The only thing I ever do is print window clings to put on figs which is easily removed. For me to pull off customizing, I had to go back to my crafting, cross my fingers, and hope all the customizers that were part of CC (and there were some really amazing ones) would not laugh at me. I am not kidding. I did not even post those to the forums because I was afraid of the comments that would be made to me about them. I STILL wouldn't post them...after all this time. And here is what I did:

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=452127

And once again, I nearly fell out of my chair when that Fairy won. Me? The non-customizer won a category with a fig that she was too embarrassed to show a real customizer.

Now of course there are other entries that I entered that got honorable mentions or didn't. I don't keep track of that. I don't build for glory and honor. (And please don't take that as I am disrespecting any who does. It just isn't my motivation.) But I can tell you this...I am not a professional builder. I build in a "classic" style. I am not a "heavy hitter" in the LEGO world. I have been told that I am "a mediocre builder at best." And yet...I challenged myself, tried, and took the risk to enter.

So, I guess the point of this post is this:

Building is what YOU make of it. If it is for the prize, cool. If it is for the honor, cool. If it is just to see if you could actually accomplish something, cool.

It is a very personal thing entering contest.
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Re: CCC XIV Winners!

Postby Bruce N H » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:41 am

Congratulations once again to all of the winners and thank you to everyone who participated! Time to let this thread fly free.
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