Handgunners

Discussion of personal LEGO Castle creations
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TwoTonic Knight
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Handgunners

Post by TwoTonic Knight »

Or Handgonners, or the usual medieval dizzying array of terminology. I was trying to make the obscure and debatable plancon a picots for a Lowland army with a chrome harpoon, 1x1 round, and a "toilet plunger" (flagpole if you prefer), and opted for an early handgonne instead. These were not much more than a tube on a stick, so except for the large diameter of a 1x1 round, it really isn't that far off. The stock could be braced against the ground in early versions of the handgonne. Later versions (before shaped stocks) with a shorter stock could be held underarm or overarm.


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SirCumferance
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Post by SirCumferance »

Interesting... Can you give me a link to a real one?

BTW, cool idea!
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Post by Dragon Master »

Thats nice. I think I may want to make those eventually. I like to play in the later middle ages, and Rennissance times. When plate-mail was thick, and gunpodwer was just coming on to the battle field.

Cool Stuff,

DM
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TwoTonic Knight
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Post by TwoTonic Knight »

SirCumferance wrote:Interesting... Can you give me a link to a real one?

BTW, cool idea!

I was using Armies of the Middle Ages, Volume 1 by Ian Heath as my reference (1300-1487), but....

http://homepages.tig.com.au/~dispater/handgonnes.htm

Lots and lots of illustrations and side commentary.
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Post by SavaTheAggie »

Hah!

My dwarves have you beat! They've known about this technology for centuries ;)

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Though I called it something different straight out of Dungeons and Dragons :) Of course I always thought a hand cannon like this was developed much later, shows what I know.

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Post by TwoTonic Knight »

SavaTheAggie wrote:Hah!

My dwarves have you beat! They've known about this technology for centuries ;)

(snipping image in homage to Our Feudal Masters)

Though I called it something different straight out of Dungeons and Dragons :) Of course I always thought a hand cannon like this was developed much later, shows what I know.

--Anthony
Of course, this means an arms race. :wink:

Lo! Handgonners, version 1.1.

Image

The light-sabre handle was just too obnoxious in chrome, so I painted them black, like a good Stones fan. I prefer this so far, but no doubt further experiments will follow.

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Post by TwoTonic Knight »

And editing my previous message to get my numbering system right, the light-sabre version is now 1.1 (a refinement of 1.0). So here is version 2.0: more of a mid to late 15th century handgonne with a shoulder stock. They were rather short - I could cut down some of the stock. I left the firing mechanism on to indicate a serpentine, rather than a flintlock or wheellock, which weren't until after the medieval period.

Oh, and that is "Treasure Gold" brand "Pewter" colored wax metallic on the helmet (an alternate brand to Rub'N Buff).

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SirCumferance
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Post by SirCumferance »

This may be a bit off topic but... How do you paint the chrome? Do you strip it off, or just paint over it?

Thanks,

Joe
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Post by TwoTonic Knight »

SirCumferance wrote:This may be a bit off topic but... How do you paint the chrome? Do you strip it off, or just paint over it?

Thanks,

Joe
It should be stripped off, but I was impatient and simply did my quickie wash and paint. Putting the end of the light sabre into the toilet plunger strips off much of the paint (I had to repaint for the Handgonner 2.0 and I can see in the photo that it is still wet and shiney in the creases). I also suppose that I am veering into "Customs" and out of "MOC" with the variations I am producing, but I think it should be kept as a single thread, so I leave it up to Our Feudal Overlords ("moderators" in the mundane).
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Post by kaloo »

TTK, its called unecessary customizing. :wink:

Personally, I believe gunpowder doesn't and never will fit in into Castle, as gunpowder was more or less the beginning of Renissance and Early Modern (pirate, conquest). It pretty much ruins the idea of castles, as it could blast through them with no thought to design, unlike big, interesting trebuchets that deserve to be able to do things like that. They pretty much say 'well beat this!' to the archers, before blasting through a forestman & the tree behind him. But this is just my wildly off topic opinion...
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Post by TwoTonic Knight »

kaloo wrote:TTK, its called unecessary customizing. :wink:

Personally, I believe gunpowder doesn't and never will fit in into Castle, as gunpowder was more or less the beginning of Renissance and Early Modern (pirate, conquest). It pretty much ruins the idea of castles, as it could blast through them with no thought to design, unlike big, interesting trebuchets that deserve to be able to do things like that. They pretty much say 'well beat this!' to the archers, before blasting through a forestman & the tree behind him. But this is just my wildly off topic opinion...
The late "Castle" (medieval) period has been called the Early Modern warfare period, so it is most appropriate. It is more of an indulgence in wishful thinking to hold that gunpowder and castles didn't co-exist - cannon were present at the great victory of the longbow at Crecy in 1346. It's more of a fantasy literature thing to preclude gunpowder (why have it when you have magic). Realistically, handguns were fairly ineffective at this time - from a practical standpoint a crossbow or longbow would be more useful. The real effect firearms had was the fearful noise, flame, and smoke - they had a very real impact on an opponent's moral.

Still, I understand where you are coming from - it just seems like cheating. But it is also a subject that is virtually never discussed within Castle postings, so I thought it time to breach the subject.

For the moderators: there has to be a certain leniency towards historical discussion of ideas presented within MOC or customs, so I don't think this is entirely off-topic.
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Post by The Blue Knight »

Interesting as always TTK. Like others I prefer to keep gunpowder out of my castle world. It's ignoring reality, but after all, it is my fantasy world. I prefer the thick plate mail able to repel arrows, and only a clash of arms, strength, on strength, courage on courage thing to decide the battle. You know, one lone knight (Blue, of course) holding off a horde of less well equipped and evil baddies. Very romantic all that. And yes, very unrealistic, but hey if you want realism, turn on the news. I appreciate your imagination and innventiveness. Have you thought about bombards? How would those look..?
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Post by architect »

I do think that gunpowder has a place in late medieval architecture moc's. Jon Furman's provincial village has men with muskets. I have a cardinal's guard with my City Gate. We should remember that gunpowder eventually changed warfare and military architecture. So it is a valuable part of the story. :wink:

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Post by Mr. D »

Alas! Behold the one thing that brought an end to the knight. Ah, well; great MOC, anyway. Bombards would probably be easier to build, but there are many more possibilities.

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gunpowder

Post by Magnus »

I have a few cannons in my medieval arsenal, mainly the ordinary firing canons mounted onlarger more cumbersome carts. On the other hand, I have a fantasy army consisiting of 40 or so skeletons, and maybe 9 dragons,and I've never really used them.

By the mid 1400s gunpowder was well established as an effective and virtually necessary element in any modern army. The decline of castles and knights can be tied to mainly social factors in addition to the advent of gunpowder.
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