Medieval battle - The most common medieval tactics.

[Heir of Black Falcon]

Danarchy,

Yes. Both for work and fun, slight obsession, at least that’s what I am told by others.

Thanks. The list is just the ones off the top of my head that I rather like but for sure could be expanded. Verbruggen is great for the time frame covered and its contents. Still considered one of the best books on the subject so I often do plug it when I can. I only wish I could read it in the original language. On my list of things to do.

Oman in many ways is responsible for many of the good concepts but sadly some of the bad as well. His section on Hussites is rather bad for example...

I think part of the problem with the idea of the medieval charge comes from applying late cavalry charges from the 18th, 19th, even 20th centuries back onto the medieval period. The later cavalry depended on speed almost completely while speed was only part of a medieval charge.

RPM

[Danarchy]

We have to be very carefull here not to get into a historiographical discussion although I quite agree with you on Oman (and Verbruggen).

Well, being able to read several languages is quite fun, rest assured, although Dutch is a bit tricky to begin with I'm told (as a native speaker I seem to manage ) I'm quite lucky to have a sound understanding of Dutch, French, English (speaking and reading), Latin, Ancient Greek and German (mainly reading)
Other languages I'd like to learn are Italian and (active) German.

[Heir of Black Falcon]

You got me there. I have English (took an old english classes but still not down completely), Spanish, French (Anglo-Norman) and Latin. I can read Italian OK for the most part but need a good italian dictionary at all times.

I will try not to hijack the thread...

R

[castlestrike666]

Good training to see what's the best strategy is playing the games "Medieval Total War" or "Viking Total War", because they use most of the techniques told here.
For instance the winner follows the one who has lost till they're sure not to regroup.

A very handy technique I use in the game, is flanking. Flanking has (as far as I know) a strategy used in many battles (also nowadays).

1st row: Pikemen, to defend against the rushing cavalry.
2nd row: Archers, to give the ennemy a rain of arrows.
3rd row: All other infantery (swordsmen, axemen, ...)
4rd "row": Horses. Behind the infantry I place my horses, to charge the enemy first. I put them on the last row, because the less you loose of them, the better it is . And normally your enemy will use a rain of arrows too...
Finally I have horses on the right & left flank (if possible coverred in the woods) to flank the storming enemy infantry!
If they can't hide, put them out of sight. Because they're fast, they reach get the battlefield in maybe a few minutes.

That way the enemy will get surprised and will start to flee not much after

I think there are better ways, but this is what I use most

[CastleLord]

My favourite tactic is not mediveal. It's Roman at first they trew the spears then they charged with the swords drawn, and if they fled 5 men from each battalion was taken out and Tortured to death.

I also like the closing hand method (as i call it). Were they tricked the enemy in to a trap, and attacked them from every direction since there were no place to escape they got killed.

CastleLord.

[Danarchy]

castlestrike666,
Total war is indeed a reasonable way of finding out how different arms behave. Just remember that nothing is writen in stone when it comes to tactics.

Heir of Black Falcon,
Anglo-norman French is quite impressive though
And dictionaries are made to be used

[Patron of the lego]

Total war is fun, but it doesn't accurately repesent warfare. The game doesn't repesent the effects of weather full, no ranged fire in rain for example. Most forces were placed in regiments but swordsmen did fight as a legion but as a individual solider. Supplies weren't factored in and most of all some of the tactics in the game would not be implemented in real life. Horses would be put on the sides not the back, as what would happen if troops attack the flank? Archers would be in the front as you can't fire from behind, and Calvary was often used as a offensive unit, not a counter offensive unit.

I find war a good example of tactics.

[Heir of Black Falcon]

I agree video games and we can add most movies usually do not portray a very good representation of medieval battle or troop types. One other reason is that some of the advantages or disadvantages they have to create to balance the armies in the games or movies to make it simple to play/watch. I have not played the game in many, many, many years but remember a few issues with it, mostly relating to the oversimplification of things.

Archers most certainly were used behind their own troops.

'Burgundian ordinance from 1473
Furthermore, my lord [the duke] ordains that, in order that the said troops, may be better trained and exercised in the use of arms and better practiced and instructed when something happens, when they are in garrison, or have time and leisure to do this, the captains of the squadrons and the chambres are from time to time to take some of their men-at-arms out in the fields, sometimes partly, sometimes fully armed, to practice charging with the lance, keeping in close formation while charging, how to charge briskly, to defend their ensigns, to withdraw on command, and to rally, each helping the other, when so ordered, and how to withstand a charge. In like manner they are to exercise the archers and their horses, to get them used to dismounting and drawing their bows. They must learn how to attach their horses together by their bridles and make them walk forwards directly behind them, attaching the horses of three archers by their bridles saddle-bow of the page of whose man-at-arms they belong; also to march briskly forwards and to fire without breaking rank. The pikemen must be made to advance in close formation in front of the said archers, kneel at a sign from them, holding their pikes lowered to the level of a horse's back to that the archers can fire over the said pikemen as if over a wall. Thus, if the pikemen see that the enemy is breaking rank, they will be near enough to charge them in good order according to their instructions. The archers must also learn to place themselves back to back in double defense, or in a square or circle, always with the pikemen outside them to withstand the charge of the enemy horse and their horses with the pages enclosed in their midst. The conducteurs can begin by introducing this way of doing things to small groups and when one of these groups is practiced and instructed, they can take out others. While doing this, the conducteurs are to keep an eye on all their people every day so that none will dare absent themselves or be without horse and armour, because they will not be sure on which day the conducteurs will want to take them out on exercises. Thus each will be constrained to learn to do his duty.'

From this they were to be able to loose arrows from behind and amidst the other troops such as pikes. Chronciles also states this as being a practice of English archers of the 1340s adn 1350s. It is generally thought that archers were places on the wings of men at arms units but recently the idea has been under fire using said chronicles that clearly indicate the archers either mixed in with men at arms or behind. A good place to look a this debate it Clifford Rogers book on Agincourt or Strickland and Hardy's the Great Warbow.

R

[sir aleks the bold]

attacking the flanks was also very popular

[outcast]

Surrounding the enemy and destroying them with arrows was a great Mongol tactic