Page 1 of 2

A knight's plume.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:25 am
by LEGO_KNIGHT
Hi

Dont know if this topic is in the correct forum. I always wonder what is the purpose of the plume on top of the knight's helmet? Is it just for style, rank or just to intimidate opponents?

Sorry if this is a silly question. :oops: I am just curious.

Thanks. :wink:

Erwin

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:33 am
by LEGOFREAK
I dont know for sure, there are an awful lot of historians who can tell you for certain... but in heraldry the explanation for a plume or a crest on a helm was the same as why a shield would be different.
as a quick and easy identifier.

LF

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:47 pm
by Mr. D
I think it's for decoration, but I'm not sure. Wait till Jojo, Blasterman, or TwoTonic Knight post replies, I'm sure they'll be able to give the diffinitive information.

Mr. D

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:11 pm
by Blasterman
What we have from Lego would be considered nothing
but decoration for the most part. With the exception
of the Dragon's "dragon plume" maybe. But that's more
of a faction's device, or a possible form of a "Livery".
"Livery" being a distinctive uniform, basically.

Now if we had actual helmet crests, that would be different.
Crests were extensions of the wearers arms, worn in
tournaments, were knights would "dress their best" for the
games. Some tournaments had set rules were the crest
was to be nocked off in order to score points, or win.

There are accounts of knights wearing helmet crests into
battle, such as the French at Agincourt(1415). They wore
crests because they thought it made them look taller,
and more imposing. It didn't work, btw.

Also, crests were worn for ceremonial purposes of course.

I'm giving you the basics, but I'm sure Two-Tonic can
add to this if he chooses.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:12 pm
by David Girard
The presence of the plume is decorative.
It comes from tournament tradition. I explain...

Before the tournament begin, all the helmet of the knights which were going to take part in this tournamnent, were exposed in a same room, and the public can see them before the tournament begin. So knights put distinctive elements on their helmets to be recognized during the tournament. Helmet were very much different and original some times. Plume was one of the possible distinction.

On battle, knights don't usually put plume on their helmet. It's only a distinctive thing for tournament.

An expample:
http://www.cheynewalk.com/knight39.jpg

Another:
http://www.cheynewalk.com/knight46.jpg

Another:
http://www.englishstyleclub.com/offers/ ... arkley.htm

This is one of the more original I seen:
http://www.altavista.com/r?ck_sm=356686 ... Fpb404.htm

Hope It answer your question.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:48 pm
by Mr. D
Thanks, David.

Mr. D

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:59 pm
by LEGO_KNIGHT
Thanks, David for the useful info. Thanks to everyone too for replying to my post. Really appreciate it.

Now, I know the reason for the plume. :D

Thanks. :)

Erwin

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 4:32 pm
by Blasterman
The room David references, was used to inspect and identify
knights who had possibly dishonored their names.
For example, if a knight was unchivalrous towards a Lady,
that Lady could have his helmet removed from the lists.
Their crests were there of course, but had little to do with
identifying the individual. That was accomplished by the
arms displayed under the helmet.

Crests were extensions of the knights arms, but they
rarely portrayed the entire arms. For instance, Edward
the Black Prince - his tourney crest was a little crowned
lion. His arms, however, depicted the Lions of Britian as
well as the fleur-de-lys of France, quartered. So unless
you knew his arms, you might not have known his crest.

Hey Blasterman!

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:47 pm
by caesar2164
where did you get the awsome sugarloaf helm that the minifig in you're avatar is wearing?

Giulio

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:31 am
by Blasterman
I made it, using the Lego "bullet" helm and styrene plastic.

Re: A knight's plume.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:48 pm
by Dragon Master
LEGO_KNIGHT wrote:I always wonder what is the purpose of the plume on top of the knight's helmet?


Simple really, a feather in your helmet really scares the crap out of the enemy while your charging at them!

DM

Helmet (with or without plume) :)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:16 am
by caesar2164
Nice Blasterman,

Ever think of comercializing?
I'm sure there are some potential customers...
:D

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:54 am
by Blasterman
caesar2164 -

Have you ever seen this? littlearmory.com
It might answer your question.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:06 pm
by David Girard
DM wrote
Simple really, a feather in your helmet really scares the crap out of the enemy while your charging at them!


Where do you get this theory ? Plume is only decorative. Look at any historic medieval film, and you'll see no one wear helmet with plume during fighting. Plume was use only for the tournaments.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:24 pm
by Blasterman
He's only joking about the "fear of the plume".