Utility of contest feedback

[Bruce N H]

Hey all,

Most years in the past I've done an extensive "contest thoughts" thread for the CCC giving my feedback on many of my favorite entries. I do this in part because I feel it helps improve the contest each year if people can learn a little bit about what is good and bad, at least from my perspective. I also do this because I always refrain from commenting on MOCs until after the judging is finished and that is really hard to do. It does, though, take a lot of time, and this year I just never got around to it due to other projects. After a time it just seemed like CCC6 was in the past, so why bother. However, some people have felt that this sort of feedback thread served as a capstone to the contest and wondered if I was going to have one this year (well, they may have given up on that by now). The question of judges' feedback has come up in this thread, and some have suggested that such feedback was either unnecessary or even detrimental. So, what do you think. I've attached a Likert scale question above - tell me your desire to have a CCC feedback thread. I am not sure whether I will or will not do one for the contest that is now 6 months old, but your thoughts may help me decide whether to have such a thread for the next CCC. Please feel free to follow up your vote with an explanation in this thread.

Thanks,
Bruce

[Count]

I think that most people love getting feedback from the greats of CC like yourself Bruce, I know I do. I remember a couple years ago when I entered a the battle contest entry and I sent JoshWhedin a PM for feedback on my MOC and he responded, I only wish he would have said more. My suggestion would be to just make a post and ask people to PM you with a link of there MOC if they would like your feedback, and keep it in private messages. It might fill your inbox but it should keep the flaming down in the forums.

-Count

[Athos]

I think any feedback is useful. If you were looking to shorten the work for yourself, you could limit it to one positive aspect and one negative aspect. That way we'd have an idea of what works and what didn't.

Even when I don't have an entry, I will read the thread just to see what the 'buzz' is.

I'd like to see all the judges do it.

Steve

[Bluesecrets]

I would be one who does not feel feedback is required. Nor as a judge of a past contest, do I want to be required to give feedback. Being a judge is hard enough. Its time consuming. Requiring feedback would make it even more so, which not many of the admins or judges have a lot of extra time to spare.

I am really not sure some of you really want the feedback you deserve to get. Not ALL feedback can be positive. Not all feedback should be positive. If you aren't prepared to hear the truth, no matter how negative it is, do not ask for feedback.

I stick by my belief. Build for yourself. Enjoy it. Don't build for a contest, a title, or a prize. Then you do not have to worry about feedback.

[SlyOwl]

The CCC feedback is, to me, a key part of the whole process:
Build-up and anticipation (e.g. Dan's mini-castle contest) || Announcement - excitement || Building || Deadline-rush over Christmas || Calm after the storm || Results || Wind-up - Master Builder and CCC thoughts.

All feedback is positive - even saying what was bad in the most blunt manner leads to improvement. It's encouraging to know what you did well (the CCCV was my first big contest, and Bruce's thoughts on my entry spurred me on), and helps you improve, something which no-one is exempt from. I also enjoy reading feedback on other people's entries, although that isn't as important, and doing stuff by PM wouldn't be a problem.

As said, it's a lot of work, but a PM/ask for feedback system works better than reviewing every entry, if the builder doesn't want it or won't see/read it.
It's definitely appreciated from my corner.

[Athos]

I would be one who does not feel feedback is required. Nor as a judge of a past contest, do I want to be required to give feedback.

I don't think it should be required; I just think its nice.

I am really not sure some of you really want the feedback you deserve to get. Not ALL feedback can be positive. Not all feedback should be positive. If you aren't prepared to hear the truth, no matter how negative it is, do not ask for feedback.

I'm not sure this is (or should be) a huge issue. We've had this conversation before. If you post your MOCs to the boards, then you're asking people to criticize it. If you enter it into a contest, same deal; expect criticism (either from the participants or the judges). Get a thick skin or don't post, should be the rule.

I stick by my belief. Build for yourself. Enjoy it. Don't build for a contest, a title, or a prize. Then you do not have to worry about feedback.

I still want feedback, even if it isn't for a contest entry. How else can I improve? Personally, I rarely enter contests because I don't like trying to shoehorn my MOCs into a category and I don't do well with the deadlines.

Steve

[JoshWedin]

I think it can be useful. But its a ton of work to do all the entries. My problem is that I've had many people ask for feedback but got mad at what I said...so I'm a bit gun-shy now. I will still often do it privately, if I have time, but I'm never sure how it will be taken.

Josh

[RichardAM]

I don't think it's essential, and I don't feel like it needs to be done.

This isn't me saying no to free comments, not at all, just, for me the best part of the contest is in the early stages, the planning and building for it and then seeing the entries of others. I understand others demand or feel the need for comments/recognition/getting noticed, but contest feedback is something I can easily do without.

[Blueandwhite]

I think it can be useful. But its a ton of work to do all the entries. My problem is that I've had many people ask for feedback but got mad at what I said...so I'm a bit gun-shy now. I will still often do it privately, if I have time, but I'm never sure how it will be taken.

Josh

I think this is the double-edged sword of feedback. On the one hand, there are many people who genuinely appreciate constructive criticism. Conversely, there are others who take what is said very personally. For many of us, feedback is incredibly beneficial, while others take it as a personal slight. There are a lot of builders who simply take contests far too seriously.

Personally I think that alot of AFOLs forget that the judgement of a contest will always be subjective. A MOC that wins a contest is simply the winner of that contest; it is not automatically the best MOC entered. It is only the best in the eyes of those who judged the contest. This may not be consistent with popular opinion, and as such some people tend to get angry. I liken these situations to film reviews where critics and movie-goers fail to see eye-to-eye. Personally I feel that feedback is only really warranted for the winners and runners-up. If a judge can explain the reasons for choosing the winners, then feedback for others really is redundant.

[davee123]

Some of the negativity voiced in the other thread had to do with seeing other people's feedback. That is, someone like SlyOwl did very well (1 win, 4 mentions out of 6 entries), and probably doesn't need constructive criticism as much as other entrants who didn't get a win or honorable mention. And of course, personal reaction to criticism can always be a factor. As such, a thread of that nature has some potential to raise tempers-- the question is, do you, as administrators and moderators want to handle that kind of situation. Clearly, there's value in the feedback-- and maybe you can change the dynamic so that feedback is requested and distributed privately via PM's rather than in a thread, but any way you slice it, there are bound to be some nerves touched.

DaveE

[Sir Nelson]

While I do believe that there is value in feedback, I think that the expectation of having it is selfish. As davee alluded to, this comes at what cost? Personally, I would rather see the C-C Admins spend their time doing more worthwhile things like updating the HTML pages and fixing dead links, than to placate the needs of egocentric builders. Seriously, if you won or placed in a contest, why not just celebrate that and move on? We could all use less EGO, and more LEGO.

I also enjoy reading feedback on other people's entries, although that isn't as important"

okay...

I still want feedback, even if it isn't for a contest entry. How else can I improve?

Eat your veggies.


Perhaps this thread should be renamed 'Futility of contest feedback'. Why not institute a contest handicap system for builders (similar to that for amateur golfers), and level the playing field?