What does the term 'Castle' really mean?

Sir Kohran · Post by **Sir Kohran** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:46 pm

Okay, Castle is the name of the best Lego line there is, we all know that, but what sets and themes does Castle actually cover/include? Is it just sets with 6 at the beginning of their number code? Does it include Ninja? Vikings? KK1 and KK2? 1592? Sets up until 1990? Or does 'Castle' mean something completely different? What do you think?

- Matt

Lord_Of_The_LEGO · Post by **Lord_Of_The_LEGO** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:56 pm

"Castle", in my opinion, covers everything from the Yellow Castle to present, including Ninja, Vikings, and all of the KK. Basically, everything that could fit into the "medieval" time period (note I didn't say medieval Europe).

Stone Goblin · Post by **Stone Goblin** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:25 pm

To me "Castle" covers anything that looks like medieval and premedieval except maybe prehistory(stoneage). I also include Fuedal Japan and fantasy. Usually I consider anything "Castle" that is before the heavy use of the gun. But I would allow the occasional fantasy "boomstick"(gun) in my "Castle" world.

Blueandwhite · Post by **Blueandwhite** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:33 pm

What does it mean to you?

Seriously.

Personally, I think that its best for AFOLs to establish their own definition of just what "Castle" means.

Personally, I feel that "Castle" refers to the lines that came out between 1978 and 1997. These sets seem closely related to each other, and share many similar design traits. I love the Ninja line (wish I was buying more LEGO then), but I feel it is a distinct theme. Still, it has several ties to the classic-castle line. Similarly, KKI and KKII feel quite different. Like the Ninja line, I feel that the Viking line is its own distinct entity.

So when all is said and done, I think this is a matter of personal choice. I see the classic-castle line as something that began in 1984, and ended in 1997 (The yellow castle is something of a pre-cursor to classic-castle). I feel that the other lines (KK, Ninja, and Vikings) are more of an offshoot of the original castle line, but it is still appropriate to treat them as being thematically similar. How you see it, is of course up to you.

Later.

Maedhros · Post by **Maedhros** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:08 pm

In my opinion Castle is anything from Crusader/Black Falcon era to KKI. What about KKII and Vikings you may ask?

The reason I think they way I do is that the era I mentioned works together. Place a KKI fig beside a Crusader and they will work perfectly as soldiers in the same world.

KKII is in a very different style, for better or worse. To me KKII is like Harry Potter and Star Wars, definitely Castle useable but not really Castle.

Vikings are a bit harder, they are closer to Castle than KKII but still not quite Castle. The major difference is the new speckled armour colour. That really makes them stick out from regular Castle. Also new weapons and of course the bionicle beasts. I don´t say that I dislike them, I just think they are different from Castle.

And then we have Ninja. I´m not sure myself what to think. They fit in the style of Castle, (No freaky weapons, speckled armour or oversized helmets or garish colours.) but in the same time they are very different. (Don´t ask me to explain why Europe and Japan would be different

)

And then we have the oldest Castle line. I agree with Blueandwhite on that one. They are more like a pre-cursor. They have stickers, very different armour etc but still they are more "Castle" than Vikings and KKII. maybe it´s just the sheer age of them that puts them in another category

This is my opinion about this matter. And this has nothing to do with what i think about these themes. It´s about which I think are Castle.

TwoTonic Knight · Post by **TwoTonic Knight** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:47 pm

There's only two real questions on what may fall out of the main Castle line, and that is Ninja and Vikings (KK1 and KK2 individuals may not like, but what has that to do with them being part of the Castle line). Ninja has a castle - yes, in Japan, but its a castle, and it falls within Japan's feudal period. The firearms would date it outside Europe's medieval period with the contact through Portugese in the 1500's, but the medieval period ended at different times within Europe itself, so that's not a disqualifier. Nor are firearms a disqualifier, since they appeared increasingly on the battlefield throughout the end of the 1300s and into the 1400s in Europe. Whether or not Castle fans have an interest in feudal Japan is something else entirely (but no doubt some will confuse interest with the facts).

The bulk of the Viking era predates what is really even the beginning of traditional castle building (not to be confused with fortified cities). LEGO has a Castle line in production simultaneously. The Viking line has no actual castle. I think it is something technically outside of the traditional Castle line, but still appeals to Castle fans. I don't know if LEGO considers Vikings as a Castle line or not.

If one wants to broaden the concept to "Medieval" rather than "Castle", then there is a greater tie - certainly the "Classic-Castle" fans here have embraced Vikings for the most part, and the Classic-Castle Contest allows the early middle ages ("dark ages"). Whether LEGO defines Vikings as a Castle line, I couldn't say. I'm quite happy to go with the "medieval" definition, myself.

Post by **Athos** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:05 am

I very loosely consider it to include everything from the Fall of the Roman Empire (c. 476 A.D.) up through the Fall of Constantinople (c. 1453 A.D.) plus any fantasical worlds based on technology and mythology from said period.

Steve

Horak the Great · Post by **Horak the Great** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:37 am

"Castle", in my opinion, covers everything from the Yellow Castle to present, including Ninja, Vikings, and all of the KK. Basically, everything that could fit into the "medieval" time period (note I didn't say medieval Europe).
_________________
Nathan Wells
Gaming Admin

I would have to agree with this. Nevertheless, there are themes like Harry Potter which have sets in which one does build a castle, but I would be very hesitant to consider this a "Castle sub-theme/faction". Of course, one could use a good bit of it for parts. KKII, while more fantasy-oriented (like HP, one may say) I regard as part of the Castle theme, as much as I dislike the so-called "Jellybean Knights." I think it is pretty safe to assume that Lego intended KK to be a successor Castle sub-theme. It's all quite arbitrary, frankly. This is just my two cents worth.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:06 am

Along with Horak the great and LOTLego I think it is all the way from the yellow castle to present kk2. To put it simply, castle is a LEGO faction that does not include firearms or modern day equipment

Now when it comes to fantasy and fairy tales, I'm sure castle fits in as well. Many a time LEGO has used dragons in their sets, although we know dragons were "not supposed to live with humans." TLG added beasts and wizards to give some imagination and flavor to a somewhat dull topic. When it comes to HP, I would have to disagree with its conentations to the Castle theme. Think about it, kids running around with sticks and capes trying to defeat wierd monsters or hogwart rules, I don't think thats 'castle.' I do have to say that HP has contributed to the fantasy aspect in most MOCs or stories, as do some other themes. KK2 is just a fancified tale of good vs. evil, yet its still considered 'castle' regardless of its jelly bean color.

Just my opinion

JPinoy · Post by **JPinoy** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:23 am

I have a VERY broad definition to what I consider to be "Castle".

To me Castle means the buildings itself, or any other time period in which you have buildings/structures of similar design. Whether its the Migdol (fortress) of Buhen in ancient Egypt, Himeji Castle in 1500s Japan, the Great Wall of China, the Fortress of Massada in ancient Israel, Carcassonne, and even the Mayan fortress in Tulum... (yes, Mayans had fortifications long before the Spaniards came) or whichever... its all "Castle" to me.

Ristridin · Post by **Ristridin** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:03 pm

Maybe it means something like Medieval....

VikingLord · Post by **VikingLord** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:57 pm

My defintion of "Castle" is anything Medieval, and thats including Vikings and Ninjas. Basicley anything from the Yellow Castle to present day Vikings.

Brickboy · Post by **Brickboy** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:34 am

If it doesnt use guns then its castle=)
-Alan-

The Hordesman · Post by **The Hordesman** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:58 am

Brickboy wrote:If it doesnt use guns then its castle=)
-Alan-

I would say no; guns are ok, since the reinassance is a part of the castle era.

I would say 500-1500, thats castle. 1600 and over is not in europe even though castles were used.
Any periods before 500 goes too, but are not as "castley"

BlackVrabac · Post by **BlackVrabac** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:00 pm

For me, "castle" would signify everything from yellow castle to KK2, not including KK2. As much as I saw it in catalogues and pictures, that thing is very much different (I won't say worse- ooops, I did

) than the older line. Also, within the Castle line there are subdivisions. Proper castle would for me be everything from the inclusion of lion/black falcon/black monarch knights to those guys with green dragons and fancy helmets, I think they're called Dragon Masters or something, well up to them and not including. Everything after that and including them is basically going downhill. Armour and weapon designs started being too colorful and fanciful, so did the castle designs. I don't know abut the rest of you, but for me that's one big degeneration, and has little to do with original castle line of the 1980s and early 90s, except maybe in name and very general apearance (yes, in the dark and at certain angles, those mega dragon, bat, fright, whatever guys looked similar to old knights/soldiers

). So I can't go without the subdivision. And the third subdivision would be from yellow castle to 1984 and first lion/black falcons, it's also much different than the proper castle, being older. This is just my oppinion of course, no offense meant to anyone who likes the later castle lines.

Oh, and I thought this is lego-wise? Nothing to do with actual years I guess.