Why be upset at the mass production of rare parts?

[ottoatm]

The people that turned LEGO into something more than a toy/hobby to pass the time away in building happiness are upset, everyone else is happy that these rare parts are becoming available "for the masses". LEGO should never be a status symbol!

It reminds me of data - people always want to lock their data into this standard or that software/hardware tool (hi i-tunes, DRM, etc ).

But when it's open to everyone more good can be done, and more people can enjoy it. I'm looking forward to some great MOCs, customs, Castle Stories~

Besides, there's always the excellent customs (like my little green guy there )

[Ye Olde Republic]

I look at it like this: with rare parts, there is always a chance that it can become much less rare at any time. Take the black beard for example, a non-production piece in that colour but there was always a really great chance that it would come out in black sooner or later. You can't be surprised when it happens. My collection holds a few items that can be seen as rare yet common at the same time. My prize is my black bird and I know that some day it will probably come out again in black but what's the point in worrying about it? It's black, I'm surprised they haven't already brought out a black bird, same goes for the black sword.
Personally, I try to not go crazy for these types of things and give it some time to see if it will come out in the next couple of years. Like grey cheese slopes. I didn't go out and buy them while they were still rare and lo and behold, they came out in a few more sets...as I'm sure will happen with the green cheese.
Things like the pitchfork will always hold it's value as it will never come out in old brown.

Minifigs are a bit of a different animal though. This is still a fairly new phenonmenon though, so I'm going to sit back and see what happens as this latest minifig collection is probably the first to offer the types of figs that command high dollars on the after market. For now though, I'm going to go ahead and buy one because I'll be comfortable knowing that it's worth it to me because I don't care how old the plastic is, I just care about the characters (in perfect new condition) that I'll be able to add to my collection.

All collections are different and so are collectors, so to those who are upset by this I'd just like to say "I'm sorry you feel this way, but please understand that it's out of your control."

[JoshWedin]

Great discussion, Bruce!

I collect rare pieces, but I'm not upset when rare pieces are produced in greater quantity. I've had it happen with several items and have yet to be angry. I don't collect them because they are "valuable". I just like having items that are hard to get. For me it is the thrill of the hunt. I don't look at anything in the hobby as an issue of status. For me, it is a hobby and supposed to be fun. I am worried about the people who get all frantic about their "status" in the hobby. It shouldn't be that serious.

Lately, there has been a ton of non-production pieces available from various sellers on Bricklink. At first, these pieces were only available in very small quantities and they would go quickly. Getting some of those was a matter of timing and luck. I had a lot fun trying to get in on some of those. However, now they get huge lots of them and it became only a matter of money. It lost some of thrill for me. I don't know how they are getting their parts, but it became obvious fairly quickly that they had no problem getting large amounts.

Rare pieces are never going to worth so much that you could get rich on them. At best, I could sell my rare pieces for a couple of hundred dollars. The rest of my collection is worth far more. Looking at them as an investment seems ridiculous to me. The fact that Lego can just decide to make more, is simply too "risky" for investing. I have no intention of ever selling any of my rare stuff.

The only thing that has bothered me about this situation, is the comments that people are making (not so much here as on Flickr and other sites) about how the collectors are getting their just desserts now. That makes no sense to me. One of the beauties of the Lego fan hobby is the many different aspects of the hobby and reasons to be involved, I don't see why how someone else decides to pursue the hobby should make any difference to anyone else. Its not like someone is "cheating" and ruining the hobby for everyone else.

Josh

[davee123]

One thing that makes me curious is who are these reported people? Do they really exist?

I'm reminded of the hype over CFC's in the late 1980's. I recall there was a big bunch of news stories which vilified people who used aerosol spray cans for (say) hair products. The evil people in question would supposedly think to themselves "well, it's only one little squirt of a spray bottle-- that can't be that bad!" And of course in the meanwhile they were putting more CFC's into the air and hurting the ozone layer.

But... from everything I could tell, no such people actually existed. Those who were still using spray bottles either didn't know they were hurting the environment, or didn't have good access to non-polluting alternatives. So these "evil people" were either doing a good job hiding, or simply didn't exist at all-- they were there as a communal scapegoat to bring everyone else together. An enemy we could all love to hate, without actually existing.

Now, in this example, I don't think I know anyone personally that feels it's a terrible thing because their collection is less valuable or what-have-you. Do they really exist? I mean, I know people who are disappointed by things that are suddenly cheaper, but none of them (that I know) are up in arms about it. It's more like an "Oh well, that's too bad" sort of attitude. Similarly, while I acknowledge that I think it begins to deprive the hobby of its "collectible" nature to a degree, I'm not losing any sleep over it. I accept it because of the greater good created by allowing people to get the elements they want more easily.

Anyway, I have yet to hear from anyone that fits the description of those who seem to be vilified by some of the posters in this and similar threads. Everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon of how much of jerks "those people" are, but I haven't yet actually seen any such people. Are we talking about real people here, or are we just drawing up hypothetical people to dislike?

DaveE

[JoshWedin]

Anyway, I have yet to hear from anyone that fits the description of those who seem to be vilified by some of the posters in this and similar threads. Everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon of how much of jerks "those people" are, but I haven't yet actually seen any such people. Are we talking about real people here, or are we just drawing up hypothetical people to dislike?

DaveE

I've seen a couple people complaining about this issue, but not very many. I have seen some people who are the other extreme. People crowing that the "collectors" are finally getting shafted...whatever that means.

Here's an example of the comments I was talking about:
TBB post regarding rare figs in magnet sets

Again, its only a few people.

Jsoh

[Bluesecrets]

This is my take on this. I was born with a collecting gene. I have many collections, some worth a great deal, some I am in the process of selling, some that are sentimental, and some that are just fun.

I am a collector of rare pieces (I love those German/British bricklink stores), but only the rare pieces I can see myself using. I see no use in collecting pieces that I just won't build with. My junk bin is over flowing now. (Yes, I am aware that many would say there is no such thing as a junk bin..but if I don't build with it..it goes in that bin.)

I do collect the female figs. I have several copies of almost all of the female figs in that volume 5 collection. I have over 6 forest women and have given away at least 3 or 4 more. As much as she is revered as THE female castle fig, she is not as rare as one would think. I had more trouble getting a hold of Professor Trelawney than the Forestwoman. I have upwards of 14 Princess Storms and 8 of those Studio actresses. Now I'm aware that I'm about to hear the term "horde-er" but truthfully I'm not hording. I am army building. I build with those females. I am the one that built a whole female side on a chess set. I do give these figs as gifts and do use them in fig exchanges.

I have had more than a few of my rare parts get re-introduced or finally produced. My take on this is simple.

GOOD! Hurray! Party time!

Why? Because having in my collection one of a rare part is nice, it just does not allow the flexibility to build interesting things. (For example, one turkey may not be enough for a large castle banquet.) I'm not about to go pay upwards of $30 for another turkey.

In a nutshell it goes like this, yes I am a collector, but I am a builder too. If I want to build with a rare part..I need more than one of them...so why would I ever be upset that the part has come out again? It gives me options at a much lower price..and that is always a plus!

But if you don't agree with me, that's fine too. To each their own. Collect, build, collect and build, sell? Just be happy.

[Ye Olde Republic]

Horder? Nah, it's not like you snap up every one of an item you can when they're listed just so you can sell them later. That's something different too.

[Blueandwhite]

As a builder, I flat-out don't care if a part is rare or not. Part availability is always a good thing IMO. I appreciate that there are people who have gone out of their way to purchase a large number of what they precieve to be 'rare' bricks in order to make their collections more exotic however it goes without saying that nothing prevents LEGO from resurrecting any of it's elements or figures for future use. Personally, I would be very surprised to find many people actually upset at the idea of bringing back an obscure item such as the forestwoman or the pitchfork simply because the majority have not had the opportunity to acquire these items.

[Bruce N H]

One thing that makes me curious is who are these reported people? Do they really exist?
...
Now, in this example, I don't think I know anyone personally that feels it's a terrible thing because their collection is less valuable or what-have-you. Do they really exist? I mean, I know people who are disappointed by things that are suddenly cheaper, but none of them (that I know) are up in arms about it. It's more like an "Oh well, that's too bad" sort of attitude.
...
Anyway, I have yet to hear from anyone that fits the description of those who seem to be vilified by some of the posters in this and similar threads.

Hey Dave,

I didn't mean to imply that people were throwing a huge fit over this. I was responding to the following quotes from this forum:
"personly I think it would be ashamed if the black beard came out. because then the black beard wouldn't be a special color any more and since I am a rare collector.. there is another one off the list."
"I'm a bit disappointed my two forest-women may no longer be the rarity they once were."
"it is a bit disappointing that my uncommon figure will become somewhat common."
"I've got two of those I was hoping to keep rare..."
I'll leave out the attributions as I'm not trying to call out any specific individuals, but my post was spurred by reading these posts in short succession a couple of days ago. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the subject line "why be upset ..." and rather just said "why be bummed ..."

Bruce

[Count Blacktron]

I just want more pitchforks.

[Ye Olde Republic]

Whether or not people are or aren't up in arms over this, I think it's a valid discussion that we should all have more often. Our hobby seems to focus on MOCing that the collecting aspect sometimes seems forgotton or oft times, ignored/shunned.

Also, as mentioned a couple of times in this thread, there is the bricklink dynamic which has allowed us to expand our collections as they never could have been up until, even say ten years ago. If there is prestige to be found by having a large collection, surely there would have been more back in the 80's and 90's before we could buy by the piece. My favorite example of this has got to be Robert Carney. If you browse his site, you'll see pics of many castles that were built in the 80's and you know he had to aquire all the parts by purchasing multiple copies of sets. Here he has build Dover castle twice, once in 1988 and again in 2002.

[SlyOwl]

Opportunity lost.
I recently went to the Bluewater PaB, and in the minifig section, they had loads of turkeys (i.e. some MMVs were stuck in - I found a couple of blacksmith torsos too). I got 5, out of my 6 available "accessory slots", for their trade value (and one to keep!). Now, I see there is one in the upcoming Harry Potter, and wouldn't be surprised to see them more widely available from now on. I wouldn't have got 5, and got some more directly useful (in large quantities) parts, if they'd be incredibly common.

Still, it was worth it!

[Bruce N H]

Wow, that's cool. I don't get to a LEGO store very often as we don't live close to one anymore, but every time I do the only accessories in the build-a-fig are town bits like walkie-talkies. I've really never seen accessories in there that I had any desire for. I did get three governor's daughter torsos last summer, which was pretty good (they didn't have the printed slope dress, though, so I just got white legs).

Bruce

[sirJacob]

I think it's really good to mass produce old and rare parts and minifigs!
But i can ephazise with the collectors, I have a few parts that are rare and kind of "valuable". But the only thing that gives them value for me is that i bought them when they were new, so the vintage value is the only value that counts for me!
So my sollution for this problem is: re-release as much as possible, but with a twist... for instance the torso is printed on the front and back side, or other obvious things so the new and he old can't be mixed up. This will give everyone access to the rare and good pieces but it will also continue giving the thrill of colecting rare parts because they will continue being rare...

[Kevin1990]

I am not upset with TLG that they are releasing old rares. and I am a real hardcore rare collector
as the admin said real collecters can see the differance between original en reisude ones.
for example wich what I did with the forestwoman.

the new forestwoman has larger teeth inside the torso, alse the new one has a darker torso color wich matches the arms and legs. the head of the minifig will probably have a hollow head when the old one had a non hollow head. so rare will always be rare because lego can release something that looks like it but they can never make the same one again

especially when they released Reddish brown, Light Bluish Gray, and Dark Bluish gray.
so the pitchfork, Pony, Forestmens hat, Leia's hairpiece and a few other will stay rare.

so all I have to say is bring on the new "rares" I know the differance between the classic one and the new ones.

ps
that why I let bricklink make a new entry for the forestwoman there was a whole topic on it on bricklink forum
but luckaly I won it and the new forestwoman has a new entry