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Postby Sir Kohran » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:35 pm

Sir Drake wrote:Thanks, Formendacil, everything is clear. For my future plot, I was going to let some shadow knights raid a KK2 village, but now I just remember that the Shadow Knights technically ARE KK2, so there won't be a problem.


Not to get off-topic here, but the Shadow Knights are no more a part of Morcia than the Bulls are a part of King Leo's Kingdom. They're separate factions, so I don't see why a Shadow Knight raid couldn't happen.
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Postby Robin Hood » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:45 pm

Not wanting to start anything violent, I just thought I should say that since the Shadow Knights aren't really a nation, there should be no problem. While the Shadow Knights are a group of people, they don't own any land. They are spread, or centered, in some unknown place. So basically it would be like a group of pirates raiding an island. Just thought I should mention that.

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Postby Formendacil » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:06 pm

Sir Kohran wrote:Not to get off-topic here, but the Shadow Knights are no more a part of Morcia than the Bulls are a part of King Leo's Kingdom. They're separate factions, so I don't see why a Shadow Knight raid couldn't happen.


Not a problem anymore! :D

Actually, I think that the exact nature of the Shadow Knights in the Roleplay is something that ought to be discussed. We really don't know where they are based, or how they're connected, or what.

And while nothing that isn't actually in the Roleplay is truly canon, it would be nice to hear what everyone's impressions have been from their read-throughs of the Roleplay.

For myself, I've always understood them to be something of a secret society, more-or-less good guys, but with some sort of secret agenda.

Dragoman, I hope you'll weigh in here, seeing how, of the people who have posted about Shadow Knights, you've done so the most, and you're the only one currently active.

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Postby TheOrk » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:28 pm

Interesting. I myself have thought of the Shadow Knights as some sort of Satanic(megablocic) cult. They're some sort of secret society and by being called "Shadow Knights" they must be evil or have an agenda.
With some wacko like Vladek in charge(isn't he?) he could be plotting to carve out his own little kingdom. Or something else evil. Like overthrow the King of the Jellybellies, oh wait it's been done :wink:
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Postby Formendacil » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:41 pm

TheOrk wrote:With some wacko like Vladek in charge(isn't he?) he could be plotting to carve out his own little kingdom. Or something else evil. Like overthrow the King of the Jellybellies, oh wait it's been done :wink:


Actually, I'm not all that sure that there IS a Vladek in Dametreos.

The first Shadow Knight leader I remember seeing was the Shadow King that met the Bulls in the "Return of the Bulls" plot, and combatted the Lone Ranger.

Since then, there has still been no mention of Vladek, and as I recall (although since the Shadow Knights haven't impacted any of my plots, I don't really remember too well) there was some mention of a Shadow Knight council...

If there is a Vladek in Dametreos, maybe he's a member of the council. Or maybe he's a rouge Banterasian knight. Maybe he's one of the Fright Knight Batlords. Maybe he doesn't even exist! :twisted:

Food for thought...
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Postby Dragoman » Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:17 am

Formendacil wrote:Dragoman, I hope you'll weigh in here, seeing how, of the people who have posted about Shadow Knights, you've done so the most, and you're the only one currently active.

Okay, but you asked for it.:lol:

Before I begin, here’s something I took from the RP that gives a little background on how long the Shadow Knight have been around. It takes place at Orion after the destruction of the pendants, and when Daner explains the history it:
Lord_Of_The_LEGO wrote:Yes, the matter of the Pendants are quite confusing." agreed Daner, "It is best I start from the beginning. 4000 years ago, before Classic LEGOland and all the other factions existed, there were small pockets of human settlements throughout the mainland, and on several of the bigger islands. Now, 4000 years is quite a long time, trust me, I've lived half of them, and much was different from the way things are now.

"These clans of people were ruled by kings, yes, but their kings were always great wielders of magic -- wizards, magicians, mages...even necromancers for the more evil of the clans. Now, one of these clans were the Kris clan, ruled by King Calrias. However, he was always known as King Kris, for kings always adopted the name of their clan when they rose to the throne.

"King Kris was the most powerful sorcerer, and therefore the Kris Clan was the most powerful clan. For decades, the Kris Clan dominated but did not dictate over the land, only suppressing the ne'er-do-good clans such as the Scopos and Inion clans. Unfortunately, the Inion Clan -- lead by the Lord Inion of course -- was more powerful than King Kris had suspected. Lord Inion allied himself with the Scopos clan and attacked the Kris Clan from all sides. King Kris drove them back, but he was shaken, and he feared for his power. So King Kris built a temple his called the Temple Of The Powers and in a ceremony now forgotten, deposited all his power into two small pieces of jewelry, the Twin Pendants Of King Kris.

"Almost immediately after King Kris did this deed, Lord Inion attacked again, obliterated the Kris Clan, and discovered the Temple Of The Powers. King Kris and Lord Inion then dueled, but already King Kris' fate was sealed. Once Lord Inion discovered the two bits of jewelry, he destroyed them in the very forge Kris had used to make them. Instantly Kris was powerless, and Lord Inion killed him on the spot. The incinerating fireball that killed King Kris illuminated the Temple Of The Powers like a dozen comets, and so the local populace began to call the temple the Temple Of Lost Stars. Long after the temple had been swallowed by the Neverwood, the name still stuck.

"For 2000 years, chaos and evil ruled the land soon to become Dametreos. The Inion Clan assimilated the other clans and expanded like a plague. That's until my mentor and teacher, the wizard Verlin, banished Lord Inion with one powerful spell. Slowly evil dispersed, retreating to the dark corners of the land. The Inion Clan disbanded, and Scopos Clan evolved into the mysterious Shadow Knights.


Ok hears what I think happened and what made the shadow knights who they are. But remember anything I say here isn’t official, just speculation:

Alright, so we know that at one point before his fall, Inion had allies known as the Scopos clan who were the Shadow Knight’s ancestor. But when he was banished by Verlin, I would imagine that those who were being suppressed for 2000 years by Inion weren’t too happy with the Scopos clan helping him take over. So the Scopos clan were probably either forced in to hiding and/or exile. I would guess then that they soon learn certain kinds of shadow magic’s that enabled them to better hide themselves from the indigent growing forces of Dametreos. Eventually the Scopos clan may have even become so good at hiding and keeping to the shadows that it just became a new way of life for them and when they hand been forgotten by most, no Scopos felt the need to remerge with the new factions that had developed around them. And so they became the Shadow Knights.
So there you go.

Formendacil wrote:Actually, I'm not all that sure that there IS a Vladek in Dametreos.

There was a brief mention of a Vladek by LEGO-las before he left the role play:
LEGO-las wrote: "As your Captain said, I am Moff D'Florda. I was sent by Lord Vladek II to hire some mercenaries”


And though this was just Vladek II, we know that in order to have a second there must be a first. Therefore the original Vladek either at one point did or maybe still dose exists. Beyond that however I couldn’t find anything really about him. I will say that I personally have no plans to make any Vladek the head leader of the Shadow Knights. Though I have been thinking that maybe I should make him a Non-Player Characters so anyone who wanted to use him can.

Formendacil wrote:The first Shadow Knight leader I remember seeing was the Shadow King that met the Bulls in the "Return of the Bulls" plot, and combatted the Lone Ranger.

Here’s what I thought: while the Shadow King was gone and being like a darker version of Radjar, The Cult of Shadows seized power when he died(?)

Anyways it was my thoughts too that they were some type of a secret society. Not really a faction as the others are, but still far more then simple pirates, outlaws, rouges or ect.

When I think about who they are, I try thinking about why they took (or were given possibly) a name like Shadow Knight. So I would imagine that they prefer to stay in the shadows and try to keep most of their doings inconspicuous. They have after all mange to keep a low profile for close to 2000 years.

I’m not sure if I would label them as evil or not, I would just say that they're a cold and calculating group that’s not afraid to do what it takes to get the job done. but like all peoples there is some good in them.

Hope that helped, but once again all that’s just speculation.

I’m glad that I’ve managed keep people still wondering. It keeps with the Shadow Knight motif.
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Postby Formendacil » Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:53 pm

Dragoman wrote:Okay, but you asked for it.:lol:


Well, seeing all the Shadow Knight lore you've remembered/recovered, I'd say that you're the right person to ask. Half that stuff, I certainly didn't remember.

Dragoman wrote:Alright, so we know that at one point before his fall, Inion had allies known as the Scopos clan who were the Shadow Knight’s ancestor. But when he was banished by Verlin, I would imagine that those who were being suppressed for 2000 years by Inion weren’t too happy with the Scopos clan helping him take over. So the Scopos clan were probably either forced in to hiding and/or exile. I would guess then that they soon learn certain kinds of shadow magic’s that enabled them to better hide themselves from the indigent growing forces of Dametreos. Eventually the Scopos clan may have even become so good at hiding and keeping to the shadows that it just became a new way of life for them and when they hand been forgotten by most, no Scopos felt the need to remerge with the new factions that had developed around them. And so they became the Shadow Knights.
So there you go.


Works for me... I'm still curious though as to WHERE in Dametreos the Shadow Knights have their main base. Even if they're spread out across the continent, their council has to meet somewhere.

Food for thought...

Dragoman wrote:And though this was just Vladek II, we know that in order to have a second there must be a first. Therefore the original Vladek either at one point did or maybe still dose exists. Beyond that however I couldn’t find anything really about him. I will say that I personally have no plans to make any Vladek the head leader of the Shadow Knights. Though I have been thinking that maybe I should make him a Non-Player Characters so anyone who wanted to use him can.


Well, if one considers the Shadow Knights to be a proper faction, then they ought to have an MNPC leader. T'would be interesting to see a Vladek in Dametreos, considering the that Dametreosian KK2 and Shadow Knights have no antipathies of the sort found in official LEGO...

Dragoman wrote:Anyways it was my thoughts too that they were some type of a secret society. Not really a faction as the others are, but still far more then simple pirates, outlaws, rouges or ect.


Which could really make for some intriguing storylines... It would be fun, would it not, for some Shadow Knight to get sent on an important mission for the Council, only to nearly get caught, and leave a trail behind... And then the local faction sends soldiers after him. Meanwhile, he's travelling in his everyday, undercover, tradesman persona or whatnot...

Excuse me, I'm drifting...

Dragoman wrote:I’m not sure if I would label them as evil or not, I would just say that they're a cold and calculating group that’s not afraid to do what it takes to get the job done. but like all peoples there is some good in them.


Well, from what I've seen, I would say that the Shadow Knights don't agree to be evil. But they're right up there with the Dragon Masters and Fright Knights for not being exactly pleasant company. Calculated... hmmm...

Dragoman wrote:Hope that helped, but once again all that’s just speculation.

I’m glad that I’ve managed keep people still wondering. It keeps with the Shadow Knight motif.


Quite... I've had a bunch of my mentally-stored questions cleared up. And now have a much clearer vision of the Shadow Knights in general.

But I fear that my mind is yet distracted by the possibilities.

*Snap out of it, Formendacil! You don't have time for another plot!*
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Postby Sir Kohran » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:15 pm

Well, if one considers the Shadow Knights to be a proper faction, then they ought to have an MNPC leader. T'would be interesting to see a Vladek in Dametreos, considering the that Dametreosian KK2 and Shadow Knights have no antipathies of the sort found in official LEGO...


The Santis and Jayko characters we have are pretty much the same as the official Lego characters. Jayko was initially a foolish young man, who's now maturing and growing wiser. Santis is a strong, confident warrior who supports others. Works for both characters.
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Postby Formendacil » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:26 pm

Sir Kohran wrote:
Well, if one considers the Shadow Knights to be a proper faction, then they ought to have an MNPC leader. T'would be interesting to see a Vladek in Dametreos, considering the that Dametreosian KK2 and Shadow Knights have no antipathies of the sort found in official LEGO...


The Santis and Jayko characters we have are pretty much the same as the official Lego characters. Jayko was initially a foolish young man, who's now maturing and growing wiser. Santis is a strong, confident warrior who supports others. Works for both characters.


True enough, I suppose...

I guess that I see Jayko, Santis, et al, as defined more by their characters (young, strong, wise, etc...), whereas Vladek seems to me to be defined by his opposition to King Matthias and the Morcians. Since a Dametreosian Vladek, were he a Shadow Knight, would probably not be concerned with Matthias and Morcia at all, then he would seem somewhat adrift...

Of course, that's just my reading of it...
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Postby Sir Drake » Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:46 pm

I saw the Shadow Knights as the LEGO version of Tolkien's Orcs. Thus meaning, I see them as pure evil. People who live in and around the mountainous lands of the Moorlands and in the ashes of the corrupted land that was once the Kingdom of Arkonia (On the map below my post, Arkonia overlaps the land of the Fright Knights, I did this to show how the Shadow Knight Culture is influenced by the Fright Knights). In the mean time that I drew the lands were the Shadow Knights live, I did the other provinces as well :D .

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Postby Lord_Of_The_LEGO » Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:06 pm

Dragoman wrote:Anyways it was my thoughts too that they were some type of a secret society. Not really a faction as the others are, but still far more then simple pirates, outlaws, rouges or ect.


This is exactly how I see them. A secret society and magically endowed.

Dragoman wrote:I’m not sure if I would label them as evil or not, I would just say that they're a cold and calculating group that’s not afraid to do what it takes to get the job done. but like all peoples there is some good in them.


I am loath to label any faction pure evil. Labeling one faction evil and the other good puts things into black and white, which is not a way to look at things. Everything is grayscale. Every faction has it's own degree of evilness and goodness, just some factions have it more than others. For instance, the Forestmen have basically have had a "Good" rating of 9, and a "Bad" rating of 1, while the Dragon Masters are more like 3 "Good" and 7 "Bad". Other factions are in flux, like the Black Falcons. They were "bad" for the longest of times until now, where they can be considered "good".

Even the pirates I don't see as purely "bad". Even the pirates have a "good" side, however small. Smythe, for instance, saved the Misfits on Kingdom Isle in Misfits Of Dametreos II.

Simply put, I think labeling factions one way or another borders of the realm of stereotypicalness, and we all know how much I hate that, don't we? :wink:

BTW, Drake, that is an interesting map, but remember that nothing on it is official until roleplayed properly.
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Postby Sir Kohran » Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:52 pm

I am loath to label any faction pure evil. Labeling one faction evil and the other good puts things into black and white, which is not a way to look at things. Everything is grayscale. Every faction has it's own degree of evilness and goodness, just some factions have it more than others. For instance, the Forestmen have basically have had a "Good" rating of 9, and a "Bad" rating of 1, while the Dragon Masters are more like 3 "Good" and 7 "Bad". Other factions are in flux, like the Black Falcons. They were "bad" for the longest of times until now, where they can be considered "good".

Even the pirates I don't see as purely "bad". Even the pirates have a "good" side, however small. Smythe, for instance, saved the Misfits on Kingdom Isle in Misfits Of Dametreos II.

Simply put, I think labeling factions one way or another borders of the realm of stereotypicalness, and we all know how much I hate that, don't we?


This is what I love about the CCRP. No-one's truly evil, or, for that matter, truly good. For example, was it wrong for the Bulls to keep their stone from the Falcons who needed it? Was it right for the Falcons to invade in return? Was it right for Majisto to kill Dale and capture Reno to please Void? Was it wrong for Void to treat Majisto badly for his failure? Of course, there are no right or wrong answers. Essentially, we're all only human, and that reflects on our characters. As a result, the story's far more interesting than it would be if it was "Dragon Masters vs Forestmen". :wink:
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Postby Sir Drake » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:33 pm

Lord_Of_The_LEGO wrote:BTW, Drake, that is an interesting map, but remember that nothing on it is official until roleplayed properly.


^_^ Thanks :) . If it isn't roleplayed yet, then I'll try to roleplay it when my new plot will start to get in action (I'm still working on some details in my head), IF the map is Ok with everybody of course. If not, I won't roleplay it :wink: .
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Postby Dragoman » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:47 pm

Formendacil wrote:Well, if one considers the Shadow Knights to be a proper faction, then they ought to have an MNPC leader. T'would be interesting to see a Vladek in Dametreos, considering the that Dametreosian KK2 and Shadow Knights have no antipathies of the sort found in official LEGO...

Actually, I was think that maybe The Vindicator could fill that rule and Vladek could be an extremist Shadow Lord who converted from the KK2 like Jedrek did with the KK1. but he now has a grudge against his former faction for a similar reason to that of the official LEGO story.

Sir Drake wrote:In the mean time that I drew the lands were the Shadow Knights live, I did the other provinces as well

The location looks good to me but just remember that the Shadow Knights are spread all over Dametreos, so it wouldn’t be their only dwelling place. I think they even have a fortress in O-13

Sir Drake wrote:I saw the Shadow Knights as the LEGO version of Tolkien's Orcs. Thus meaning, I see them as pure evil.

What I’m afraid might happen is if the Shadow Knights are considered pure evil then there may come a time when the other faction will be forced in to destroying them, which would go against the motley faction war rule that is in place.(I think)

Well I have really no power to stop you but please please don’t make them in to a brute nation. We really already have a faction kinda like that in the Dragon Masters, and let’s not forget about the Vikings who would be perfect for raiding. I really wouldn’t want to steal their thunder for when THEY come. Plus the way that I suggested them (like Formendacil showed) made the plot possibilities almost endless, making them much more appealing to those who want to have a Shadow Knight Character and it gives some real depth in to who they are.

Wow, guess I was more attached to that background then I realized.

Well Sir Drake now that you know what I think, I wont complain anymore.
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Postby TheOrk » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:12 am

Nate if your editing the big map STOP! On the TLC website it's ANKORIA not ARKONIA!

Well I have really no power to stop you but please please don’t make them in to a brute nation. We really already have a faction kinda like that in the Dragon Masters, and let’s not forget about the Vikings who would be perfect for raiding. I really wouldn’t want to steal their thunder for when THEY come. Plus the way that I suggested them (like Formendacil showed) made the plot possibilities almost endless, making them much more appealing to those who want to have a Shadow Knight Character and it gives some real depth in to who they are.

Don't forget about the Fright Knights. I think they are more evil then the Dragon Masters, Vikings and possibly the Shadow Knights.

I see the Dragon Masters as barbarians who are more sohpisticated then the Vikings. They have stone, steel, are lead by wizards and are good with dragons.

The Vikings are barbarians plain and simple, but that doesn't mean they're bad.

I'm the main guy with the Fright Knights since the BVP. I envison them as a sort of Transylvanians. With the gothic arcitecture and the vampir-oops I said too much :wink:
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