BrickFair/BrickCon, has the torch been passed?

Post by **Bruce N H** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:13 pm

Hey all,

Perhaps it's because I haven't been online much in the past couple of weeks, but I have seen very little discussion overall about BrickFair. It used to be that BrickFest was THE event in the US portion of the Legoverse. Of course, at one point it was the only fest, but even after that we still heard tons about it. People would talk about their plans in forums, LEGO would make announcements there which would be endlessly dissected on Lugnet, Brickshelf would be full of pictures. This year I've seen very little. At the same time, though, I see discussion about plans for BrickCon (e.g. Zombie MOCs, Vipers for Chieflug, etc.). Is it that:

a) My mistaken perception - there's still just as much discussion of BrickFair; I just happen to have missed it.

b) An inevitable consequence of the addition of new fests is that no one fest gets the press domination any more.

c) I just happen to hear more from BrickCon people. For instance, the Brothers Brick and the LAML podcast are two major news sources, and those guys are from the Pacific Northwest, not to mention many major builders I follow.

d) The torch has passed. BrickFest just isn't the big deal it once was, and most of the people who once planned to travel to DC each year now plan to travel to Seattle for the new big deal, BrickCon (perhaps reflected in the name change from NWBC, which implied a more regional event).

e) Something else.

Anyway, any thoughts on this? It would be especially interesting to hear from those who have been to both.

Bruce

rgurskey · Post by **rgurskey** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:29 pm

The Brothers Brick are pushing Brickcon and had no discussion of BrickFair. They did have a link one day after the event (I don't believe any of the Brothers Brick attended BrickFair) to some photo galleries.

There are several photo albums on Flickr for Brickfair and there were some amazing MOCs.

Adrian Drake has his Jetson moonbase module on Lugnet and Classic-Space. That is the only item I have seen on Lugnet. Just my opinion, but I believe Lugnet's days as a premier LEGO website, let alone the premier LEGO website, are over. The failure to market the Castle Advent Calendar in North America hasn't even been mentioned there. I would expect news like that to appear on Lugnet, and for it to raise quite a ruckus.

The Brickfair website does have a post event wrap-up and an announcement that there will be a BrickFair in 2009 at the same location.

There just may be too may events and not everyone can attend everything. Maybe you will see some photographs in Brick Journal down the road.

Tedward · Post by **Tedward** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:29 pm

I think you may be on to something but not exactly one of your choices (more of a combination of a couple.)

BrickFair is a new event that sort of took over "the spot" from BrickFest after a hiatus. BrickCon is now the longest-running event in North America (started in 2002, only 2 years after the first BrickFest). The hard work of all the guys in Seattle has made it a great convention that draws a lot of people. I think BrickFair is doing fantastic but it is still really a "young" event. I am sure next year will see even more chatter.

And yes, I think because the Brother's Brick basically started around BrickCon and people who met there, and even though it has expanded way beyond that, they may have a just a little more coverage of BrickCon happenings. I do think though, that they are trying to cover all events and again, next year I would expect there to be as much about BF as about BC or BrickWorld or any of the European events (if they can get correspondents.)

Dunechaser · Post by **Dunechaser** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:42 pm

I think it's bits and pieces of all of the above, Bruce.

BrickCon, despite being located in a much smaller city than any of the other US LEGO conventions is pushing 200 attendees this year, with more than 50% coming from out of state. I believe BrickCon is now the longest continuously running LEGO convention, and since it's financially viable, I don't see it going away anytime soon. Yes, I believe the torch has been passed. (EDIT: See my comments later on in this thread.)

From a TBB perspective, Josh and I are inevitably and unavoidably biased by where we live. Attending SEALUG meetings throughout the year and regularly talking with the organizers, we naturally (and hopefully understandably) favor BrickCon. I also believe in the community-driven, not-for-profit approach that BrickCon organizers have taken. This is one reason we've helped promote BrickCon, to the point of being listed as an event sponsor (see BrickCon.org). (We ourselves operate on a not-for-profit basis, turning all of our profits back into the community; the ad for BrickCon in our side bar was provided for free.)

Nannan did a great job covering BrickWorld, but we don't have anybody on staff who went to BrickFair. Perhaps we could look into "guest coverage" in the future -- both for BrickFair and other events, particularly outside the States.

Post by **JoshWedin** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:10 pm

For the most part, Andrew speaks my mind.

rgurskey wrote:The Brothers Brick are pushing Brickcon and had no discussion of BrickFair. They did have a link one day after the event (I don't believe any of the Brothers Brick attended BrickFair) to some photo galleries.

We actually had more than one post about Brickfair, but that's beside the point. We have virtually no discussion on the blog about anything. We aren't a forum. There are occasionally "discussions" via the comment feature, but they really don't amount to much. The forums are where discussions take place and I saw very little discussion about Brickfair anywhere.

That is not a slam on Brickfair by any means. It was a new convention and I'm sure interest will expand as the convention ages. From talking to people who were there, it was a great event. As Andrew stated, there were no members of TBB that had the time and/or means to go. The lack of coverage was not some behind the scenes effort to ignore Brickfair. I really hope that is not what you are implying. We cover and support BrickCon because it is near the homes of the first two TBB bloggers. Its our home Con and we like it. Nothing more.

Also, Bruce, I would like to correct a couple of things in your post. James, from LAML, is not from the PNW. I believe he lives in Eastern Canada. I might be wrong about this though. Also, it seems in your post that you are equating BrickFair with Brickfest. As far I as I am aware, the two events are not related. They merely took place in the same city.

Back on-topic, I don't believe any kind of torch has been passed. It would appear, from various people that I've talked to, that Brickfest is no more. It was the first and foremost US Lego Con for many years, so it will always hold a special place for those who attended one or more of them. But it has been put to rest.

So, now there are three Cons in the US. Is one better than the others? That is impossible to say. Naturally, everyone will have their favorite, but that signifies nothing. The only people who could even start to make that judgement are people who have attended all of them, multiple times. Those people are few and far between. I would also go as far to say that it doesn't matter which one is prominent. What matters is that they exist and we have a place to gather to share our hobby in real time. If I had the time and resources, I would attend each one, as well as the other Cons around the world.

Munchy · Post by **Munchy** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:55 pm

Brick Fair had 402 official attendees in it's innagural year. That's a pretty amazing beginning. Sure, there was some problems, but I think it went off without a major hitch and most of the people whom I've talked to found it a pretty good experience. I'm sure Todd is making changes to the format to make it better. I know I'm planning on attending and (more importantly) bringing MOCs to display.

I like the fact that there are three major LEGO conventions each year. They cover the entire country so everyone can get to at least one each year without tremendous effort such as flying to DC each year. I'd love to be able to attend each one but time and money are never that abundant. Besides, having three cons kinda sets up a competition to see who can wow fans more.

Maybe that might not be a bad idea...the North American LEGO Cup as judged by the public and attendees.

Post by **architect** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:59 pm

JoshWedin wrote: Back on-topic, I don't believe any kind of torch has been passed. It would appear, from various people that I've talked to, that Brickfest is no more. It was the first and foremost US Lego Con for many years, so it will always hold a special place for those who attended one or more of them. But it has been put to rest.

So, now there are three Cons in the US. Is one better than the others? That is impossible to say. Naturally, everyone will have their favorite, but that signifies nothing. The only people who could even start to make that judgement are people who have attended all of them, multiple times. Those people are few and far between. I would also go as far to say that it doesn't matter which one is prominent. What matters is that they exist and we have a place to gather to share our hobby in real time. If I had the time and resources, I would attend each one, as well as the other Cons around the world.

I agree with Josh's opinion that the torch has not been passed. One main fan festival (BrickFest) has been replaced by three regional (but similar sized) festivals. This is much more convenient to the casual LEGO fan. Very few fans travel to fests across the country. I still need to go to Brick Con but have been to 3 BrickFests, 1 BrickFair, and 2 BrickWorlds.

I also think that fans are very biased towards their local festivals. Each one of the three has its strengths and weaknesses. According to many fans, BrickCon is more relaxed and friendly than other fests. BrickWorld by far had the most square footage and mocs displayed this year. BrickFair had over 400 registered attendees which I believe is more than any other North American festival.

The amount of local press that BrickCon gets online is fantastic. The other two fests could learn from this example. At the same time, hardly any BrickCon people attend the other events. So saying that their event is the best, which we hear often in chat and online, can be annoying.

Ben

Post by **Bruce N H** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:06 pm

Hey all,

I didn't mean to suggest any misunderstanding. I'm certainly aware that BrickFest and BrickFair aren't the same entity, but that's really from the standpoint of the organizers. To the person who says "I plan on attending a LEGO convention just outside of DC somewhere around Labor Day," it's pretty much the same. Unless (and I say this as someone who has not attended any of these fests) you are saying that the organization of the new event is vastly different and providing a much different (worse?) experience to the attendees?

Thanks for the clarification on LAML, btw. I was thinking for some reason that James was in British Columbia.

Agreed, of course, on Lugnet's wane, but that's been true for quite some time now.

Anyway, back on topic, it just seems like there's been little chatter on the boards about BrickFair, whereas in past years I remember waiting anxiously for the first galleries, reading real-time posts from Lar reporting on the keynote address, etc.

Bruce

Munchy · Post by **Munchy** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:50 pm

Bruce N H wrote:...To the person who says "I plan on attending a LEGO convention just outside of DC somewhere around Labor Day," it's pretty much the same. Unless (and I say this as someone who has not attended any of these fests) you are saying that the organization of the new event is vastly different and providing a much different (worse?) experience to the attendees?

...

Anyway, back on topic, it just seems like there's been little chatter on the boards about BrickFair, whereas in past years I remember waiting anxiously for the first galleries, reading real-time posts from Lar reporting on the keynote address, etc.

Ok. I do think there is a difference between Brick Fair and Brickfest. Brickfest was the schnizzel. It was THE LEGO convention in NA. I don't think anyone would disagree with that nor do I think that lessens Brick Fair in any way. You had major LEGO officials attend and AFOL's built the entire year to display their MOC's.

Brick Fair, by comparison, is the East Coast LEGO convention.

Will it get better? I have no doubt it will.
Will it be Brickfest? No. I don't think it will.
Will it be as big (size-wise) as Brickfest? I think it will be bigger.

Let's remember some things. Brickfest started out in a small room at a local university and after several years filled up the Grand Ballroom and several ancillary rooms at a sizable convention location (14,000sf). Brick Fair started out at the same location Brickfest ended. If we follow the growth curve, Brick Fair may end up in a space like the DC Convention Center (52,000sf).

You're right. There hasn't been a lot of chatter on the boards about Brick Fair but there are plenty of photos on Flikr. I think chatter comes with time.

I do hope all the NA LEGO conventions become huge.

Dunechaser · Post by **Dunechaser** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:31 pm

architect wrote:
JoshWedin wrote:I don't believe any kind of torch has been passed....
I agree with Josh's opinion that the torch has not been passed...

At the same time, hardly any BrickCon people attend the other events. So saying that their event is the best, which we hear often in chat and online, can be annoying.

Fair enough on the torch issue. Perhaps I was selfishly expressing a wish that more of the people who go to the other cons would come to the one less than 10 miles from my house.

You guys make a good point about the trio of cons that have replaced BrickFest, and I'm now inclined to agree with you.

However, I don't think it's true that "hardly any BrickCon people attend other events." Yes, I can see how the vocal support for BrickCon by locals like me who haven't been to BrickWorld, BrickFair, or the "original" BrickFest (I did go to the only BrickFest in 2007, which happened to be in Portland) could be grating -- and duly noted for future reference.

But as I said in my original message, more than 50% of BrickCon attendees are not locals, and I recognize many names on the attendee list who I know have been to many past LEGO cons. This was also true last year. Taking to heart your point about not saying that BrickCon is "better," I'd just like to suggest that BrickCon is much less regional than it was 2-3 years ago (no value judgement intended).

miniflea84 · Post by **miniflea84** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:10 pm

Just would like to say that Brickfair was my first lego con, and it really blew me away. I knew that there would be plenty of amazing models shown off, but I had no idea it would be so big. The sheer number of people there was awesome. Major major kudos to Todd and everyone who organized the event.

Also, the sheer amount of lego given away was awesome awesome awesome. I walked away from the event with my registration fee more than made up for with all the free stuff I got.

jamitjames · Post by **jamitjames** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:51 am

If I can chime in, LAML did try to give BrickFair its due amount of coverage. We had a call in from BrickFair and attempted to get the organizer Todd Webb on. If you listen to the episode with the BrickFair call in you will hear a couple thoughts about the BrickFair vs BrickFest discussion. Assuming of course you can get by the awful audio quality.

And yes, I am in Eastern Canada.

DaleDVM · Post by **DaleDVM** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:08 pm

I find this discussion very interesting. I am relatively new to the whole online community and convention thing. I wish I had been able to attend the old brickfest when it was more of a national convention. My dark age of ten years only ended in November. I did however hit the ground running and attended both of the Cons held this year so far. I truly enjoyed both of them incredibly.

The Brickworld event in Chicago was much larger in both space and number of MOCs. I am not sure of the number of registered attendees at Brickworld. It seemed to me that there were more attendees there than at Brickfair but I am not sure of that. I do know that Brickfair got over 400 registered attendees. Also some TV coverage helped and the number of Public attendees was absolutely huge. Over 10,000 strong which I believe was more than the last Brickfest brought in or so I am told. During the public hours the place was absolutely packed. I imagine Brickworld had similar numbers of public attendees, but the convention space was so much larger that the people were more spread out. Maybe Ben has the official numbers. I don't know where to find them. I do know that TLG was much better represented at Brickworld with presentations from several set designers and higher ups in the company. TLC had a contingent from Europe of about a dozen people in Chicago. It seems to me that both of these events are here to stay as they are more than financially sound. Both gave a lot of money to charity. I can only imagine that they will also get larger each year. I can see Brickfair outgrowing the current hotel by next year. The Chicago event has room to grow.

I am hoping to make it to the BrickCon event at some time but my castle MOCs are very large and driving them to the Pacific Northwest would likely cost me about $800.00 in gas alone. That buys an aweful lot of Lego product.

As for the online chatter. I have noticed that many of the CC'ers are based in the Northwest. So I imagine the greatest number of Castle Mocs will be present there. I will be very sorry to miss that.

As I mostly follow Castle closely and other themes only caually I think that the chatter gets lost because of dilution amongst themes and the choice of several forums out there. There were many train clubs at the Brickworld event but only a couple at Brickfair. Yet I have never even been to a forum for lego train fans. Is there a forum or site that tends to be a gathering place for all fans of Lego? I do at times feel detached and want to get to know the other fans better. Any advice for me?

I agree with others that the 3 convention system will serve the country much better than 1 event. Actually I believe that 5 or 6 would probably be even better. I can't imagine many Floridians driving up to DC, Texans making it up to Chicago, nor LA natives making the trip up to Seattle. Sure there are exceptions and people that are willing to travel great distances for these events but that is not true for most Lego fans. I truly hope that all of the events continue to grow and so does the USA fanbase. With new lego stores opening all over the country and the legoland Discovery Center just opened in Chicago there is no doubt lego is growing in popularity. I just hope the AFOL fanbase will expand and all of the Cons draw more support. I think the kids are the ones that we want to draw in and keep interested through their teen years so they become AFOLs. I'm not sure what we can do to expand the fan base because it is certainly in the best interest of all of us. Best of luck to the organizers and attendees of Brickcon I hope it is a great success.

Munchy · Post by **Munchy** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:57 pm

DaleDVM wrote:There were many train clubs at the Brickworld event but only a couple at Brickfair.

FYI

Due to some scheduling conflicts (a major display the week before I believe) the local train club didn't pull out all the stops for Brick Fair '08.

With train and town coordinators already in place for next year, I think we'll see some really great stuff in '09.

Merlin of Lego · Post by **Merlin of Lego** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:33 am

I would have to agree with DaleDVM that the amout of chater that an event generates is largly a product of where those that go post. There are quite few of the Brickcon crew that are here on Classic Castle so this becomes a good place to plan a comunity display. I have not been to Brickworld or Brickfair and do not know if they even did a comunity group display. But we are mostly on this forum so we plan and talk about it here.

Classic-Castle.com

BrickFair/BrickCon, has the torch been passed?

BrickFair/BrickCon, has the torch been passed?

Re: BrickFair/BrickCon, has the torch been passed?